1 year 8 months gone - Electrical system fault

[Art]

I don't think they were closed when this affair started, only after however long the government took to offer its advice.

The seller was doing ok business with 20-30 Meur turnover for several years. However in latest fiscal year the profit was strongly negative and balance showing large debt to owners in Sweden. Then the facilities were dropped and cars disappeared from sales. (Porsches, Ferraris, MB's..). Yes - this happened during the case handling. Board is 'independent' organization - not part of legal system.
https://www.kuluttajariita.fi/en/index.html

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[Art]

I think that Customer protection is similar in all EU countries…in Slovenia, if repair takes more than 45 days, one can demand money back or product replacement

In here the law has no exact amount of the days. It depends. There are discussions if two weeks is too long.. some sources say 2 months. All seem to agree 8 months is too long. (maybe not confirmed by Porsche)

 

[Art]

Neither do I. This is not a direct dealer failure (it might be indirectly by not facilitating a timely resolution with Porsche) . This is Porsche production quality failure. The only thing I can think of that there are some government regulations forcing customers to go through whatever government resolution path, preventing efficient resolutions of such cases and/or litigation. Maybe customers are not allowed to deal with manufacturer direct (some dealer or dealer worker union protections)? Perhaps @Art can provide some more details.

The root cause seems to be the Porsche system which is too heavy for complex problems. I've described it in this chain earlier.. customer claims there's a fault, Porsche tells they can have a look after 3 weeks, customer brings the vehicle to Porsche Center (260 km in my case), they check the car and send ticket to Germany HQ, someone at Porsche checks this when he has time, they tell PC they need a IGBT .. ok maybe a module .. which is not available today maybe next month.. they send it. PC reserves another service time but this month is full.. Finally they change the IGBT and find it was not enough.. they send a ticket with new data to Porsche HQ...

you got the point?

 

[whitex]

You described it well. Consumer disputes board 'advices' and if you have a decent business you will follow it. If not - you see your company on 'black list' of companies who have not followed the 'advice'.. For a Swedish subsidiary second hand car dealer this may not mean much.
Then consumer must sue the seller to court to have legal power for the decision - which may take another year..

Did you have the option to sue from the beginning, in parallel with consumer disputes board process? Or does the law force this dispute board process on you preventing you from suing?

 

[Fogsvans]

Did you have the option to sue from the beginning, in parallel with consumer disputes board process? Or does the law force this dispute board process on you preventing you from suing?

I'm not familiar exactly with the procedure in Finland, but Finnish and Swedish legislation tend to be very similar.
We, as most of Europe, have a system that is preventive against litigation (the opposite of the US). In most civil cases, the loser will be ordered by the court to reimburse the winner's reasonable litigation costs (plus his own costs of course). This makes all court proceedings extremely risky and a normal insurance only cover equivalent to USD 25000-35000. As Arto explained, the consumer board decision will be a strong evidence in a litigation, but one does not have to wait for it and it is possible to sue immediately but the the stakes are extremely high.

 

[rim23]

The root cause seems to be the Porsche system which is too heavy for complex problems. I've described it in this chain earlier.. customer claims there's a fault, Porsche tells tey can have a look after 3 weeks, customer brings the vehicle to Porsche Center (260 km in my case), they check the car and send ticket to Germany HQ, someone at Porsche checks this when he has time, they tell PC they need a IGBT .. ok maybe a module .. which is not available today maybe next month.. they send it. PC reserves another service time but this month is full.. Finally they change the IGBT and found it was not enough.. they send a ticked with new data to Porsche HQ...

you got the point?

Precisely my case with BMW. They have their hands clean. They pointed at the seller and the seller was pointing at them. But I was able to return the vehicle to the dealer who sold the car to me… after 7 months of fighting

 

[whitex]

I'm not familiar exactly with the procedure in Finland, but Finnish and Swedish legislation tend to be very similar.
We, as most of Europe, have a system that is preventive against litigation (the opposite of the US). In most civil cases, the loser will be ordered by the court to reimburse the winner's reasonable litigation costs (plus his own costs of course). This makes all court proceedings extremely risky and a normal insurance only cover equivalent to USD 25000-35000. As Arto explained, the consumer board decision will be a strong evidence in a litigation, but one does not have to wait for it and it is possible to sue immediately but the the stakes are extremely high.

Can you sue (and win) the government for taking so long that the "defendant" company no longer exists? Or does the government resulting "adviice" now applies to Porsche Finland, or even Porsche DE?

 

[Fogsvans]

Can you sue (and win) the government for taking so long that the "defendant" company no longer exists? Or does the government resulting "adviice" now applies to Porsche Finland, or even Porsche DE?

You can (and with 99,9% certainty lose). I would rather spend the money on something funnier than that. The consumer board advice only apply against the entity it is issued against but any decent company higher in the food chain would try to end a story like this as it doesn't exactly benefit the brand's goodwill.

 

[Art]

Long time without reporting about this situation with my Blumenwagen - Trashcan - barnfind.
Few (european)dates here:
12.8.25 - I received the consumer disputes board decision. They fully backed our claim to annull the deal. Or compensation in price if we want to agree.
12.8.25 - dealer disagrees to follow the decision and proposes 2500 € compensation
1.9.25 - we charged the dealer to court knowing the Swedish main company had closed their operations in Finland.
9.10.25 - the Swedish company had hired a lawyer who was willing to make deal returning ca. 30% of the purchase price. Annulment of the deal could have caused problems in the subsidiary and I reluctantly accepted the deal.
10.10.25 - Taking the Trashcan on the road again after staying in barn over 1 year. Charged once during the year and powered on with 1-2 months intervals to keep the 12 V battery charged.
50 -> 56% charging with 11 kW --- "Charging not possible"
11.10.25 - at 47029 km Driving first time after being 8 months in warranty service and stored over 1 year.
AC charging succeeded up to 83%. DC charging worked fine with low power (<128 kW).
- left charging port lid defect (when one port is defective - both ports are defective!)
- charging not possible
Error codes show temperature error in charging port but heat not seen with FLIR.
14.10.25 - at 47471 km's flatbed Mercedes to Espoo. ca. 260 km. (The only way to make Trashcan reliable on the road).
17.10.25 - PC Espoo informs order of one charging port. One only and no lid.
11.11.25 - PC returns car on flatbed with full battery. Drives fine but AC charging fails in the evening.
13.11.25 - Porsche Assistance collects car at 47936 km with flatbed as it does not charge with AC or DC.

I have rental hybrid Skoda SuperB iV for 5 days..

- it goes 60 - 70 km with battery ... slooowly. Then burns benzin.
- charges well with 11 kW AC
- has huge backseat space and STW boot
- has better center console/arm rest/phone area than T.
- understands spoken Finnish locations .. occasionally. Never in Trashcan!
- CA does not work when door handles are wet
- has better working adaptive LED lights than Trashcan
- has longer stroke suspension so it's not so easily airborne on gravel roads as Trashcan.
- has better UI than T.

edit.. some more..
- the surround camera system is from other century - in good way but lacks the water spray cleaning which in Trashcan needs two starts to bring the water to the nozzle. Third does not hit the camera lens and then it says - that was the maximum of shoots..
- in -5 C it seems to need fuel all the time when cruising ca. 100 km/h
- 0% to 100% to 0% battery cycle every day - this is why the hybrid car batteries are not very long living
- 27 kWh/100 km sounds high even comparing to Trashcan
- you need to switch off the lane assistance for every trip - it thinks the drifting snow or ice on edges is lane line and yanks the wheel here-and-there. Not good on icy road.

 

[Fish Fingers]

My goodness, the whole story is just appalling.
When you think it can't possibly get any worse, it does.

Best of luck going forward.

 

[69Mach390]

So they gave you some money after much fighting but they still can’t fix the car?!

So glad they have the lemon law here. They only have 3 tries to fix something or if it’s out of service for 15 cumulative days in the first 2 years you can get all your money back. A lot of times you don’t even go through that process and the manufacturer will do a buyback before the lemon law.

I hope they fix it and maybe you can then sell the car and move on to something else.

 

[rim23]

Ok. You got 30% back. Let the dealership fix the car and sell it through autovex or as trade in. It doesn’t make any further sense to keep it

 

[rim23]

So they gave you some money after much fighting but they still can’t fix the car?!

So glad they have the lemon law here. They only have 3 tries to fix something or if it’s out of service for 15 cumulative days in the first 2 years you can get all your money back. A lot of times you don’t even go through that process and the manufacturer will do a buyback before the lemon law.

I hope they fix it and maybe you can then sell the car and move on to something else.

He bought the car from a non Porsche dealer. Neither manufacturer nor dealer nor Porsche Finland (kesko) will ever accept any complains. It’s not their car. Period. I went through this path with bmw. Gladly, I was able to return the faulty car after 7 months of fight

 

[69Mach390]

He bought the car from a non Porsche dealer. Neither manufacturer nor dealer nor Porsche Finland (kesko) will ever accept any complains. It’s not their car. Period. I went through this path with bmw. Gladly, I was able to return the faulty car after 7 months of fight

The battery and powertrain should still be covered under warranty though regardless of where you buy it, right? What’s the warranty coverage and timeframe in Finland?

 

[rim23]

The battery and powertrain should still be covered under warranty though regardless of where you buy it, right? What’s the warranty coverage and timeframe in Finland?

There are cases when a car cannot be fixed under warranty in a reasonable time. They will be doing multiple attempts keeping a car for a non defined period. In that case, one expects to protect their consumer rights and ask the seller (any car dealership that sold the car. It can be a new car or a barely used one, but still under manufacture warranty) to cancel the purchase agreement.

But it doesn’t work and it’s not easy. In the case of the op, he was only able to negotiate 30% discount, but he still keeps the car. That’s it. And given it still has the extended warranty, he brought the car to the official dealer. Under no circumstances he can present any claims to Porsche (let it be an official dealer or the manufacturer). I believe he cannot also present any claims to the seller either as they have settled the problem.

I went through a similar path - bought a 1 year old BMW that went straight to a service and spent there 7 months. Hired an attorney and was able to return the car to the original seller. You cannot present any claims to the official dealer or the manufacturer. It simply doesn’t work in Europe. The seller is responsible. That’s it

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