Tesla FSD Safety Stats Misleading

[whitex]

I have another family friend who has a degenerative disease that makes it unsafe for her to drive. So she bought a Cybertruck and literally lets it drive her everywhere.

Hopefully this was not her
https://www.fox13seattle.com/news/cybertruck-fire-sr-167

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[AutoX]

I agree. The capabilities are impressive.

And what it can do for safety is impressive as well.

Unfortunately I’ve been disappointed for a long time with how Tesla markets the safety aspects which actually makes them “less safe than they could be.”

It starts with inflating statistics and even the marketing names “autopilot” and “full self drive” give people a false sense of security and they end up ABUSING the systems.

Countless stories of people using counterweights to trick the cars. Why would they do it if they didn’t think it was safe? You don’t see this widespread with other manufacturers.

I’ve had multiple arguments with a co-worker who spends his time on his laptop typing emails in his older model S on FSD on the highway daily (before the eye nanny). He believes it’s perfectly safe.

I have another family friend who has a degenerative disease that makes it unsafe for her to drive. So she bought a Cybertruck and literally lets it drive her everywhere. I’m terrified of what may happen in the instances that she or my other co-worker need to have been paying attention and take over.

100% Tesla is to blame for their beliefs.

These systems are (currently) designed to be used with a driver paying attention. They are drivers aids and do not replace the drivers.

Despite many competitors having similar level 2 systems, you don’t see the drivers abusing them in the same way.

These are examples of irresponsible drivers. Like people that drink and drive. Or people that use their cell phone while driving. Ultimately, it comes down to the driver being responsible. I don't think the naming convention fooled people into believing that they shouldn't be paying attention, or doing things like hanging weights to by pass the safety checks. Even if they believed 100% that Tesla was capable of driving 100% of the time without them paying attention, one incident where the car ask you to take over would invalidate that assumption, that is if they had any sense of self-preservation. Having had the autopilot system since 2020, and extensive experience with FSD since last year, I can say first hand that you need to pay attention and be able to take over when needed, but at the same time, it offloads a significant amount of cognitive load while driving.

 

[AutoX]

Hopefully this was not her
https://www.fox13seattle.com/news/cybertruck-fire-sr-167

If you're not capable of taking over when needed, then you shouldn't be driving. Kind of like the elderly that eventually will need to give up their license.

Having said that, there is a gray area why FSD is extremely helpful. It's that age group when they can still drive, but the reflex is not where it used to be. In these cases, FSD would be safer than then driving without FSD.

 

[69Mach390]

These are examples of irresponsible drivers. Like people that drink and drive. Or people that use their cell phone while driving. Ultimately, it comes down to the driver being responsible. I don't think the naming convention fooled people into believing that they shouldn't be paying attention, or doing things like hanging weights to by pass the safety checks. Even if they believed 100% that Tesla was capable of driving 100% of the time without them paying attention, one incident where the car ask you to take over would invalidate that assumption, that is if they had any sense of self-preservation. Having had the autopilot system since 2020, and extensive experience with FSD since last year, I can say first hand that you need to pay attention and be able to take over when needed, but at the same time, it offloads a significant amount of cognitive load while driving.

Absolutely these are irresponsible drivers.

But their ignorance is fed directly by Tesla marketing.

Where do you think they got the idea this was safe? Why aren’t drivers of other manufacturers doing the same irresponsible things?

It’s not a coincidence.

It’s also perfect that you brought up drinking and driving. Also heard PLENTY of first hand stories of people who think it’s safe to drive a Tesla using FSD while drunk.

Again….. never heard stories of people doing that with other manufacturers.

Why? Because of “full self drive” and “autopilot.” People honestly think the car “drives itself.” Also a phrase I hear repeated often.

 

[whitex]

Having said that, there is a gray area why FSD is extremely helpful. It's that age group when they can still drive, but the reflex is not where it used to be. In these cases, FSD would be safer than then driving without FSD.

Google/Waymo research found that it’s not true. Paradoxically, the better the FSD gets, the more dangerous it becomes to the supervising human.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/07/technology/google-self-driving-cars-handoff-problem.html

Think about it, how ready to take over would you be if your car drove itself every day, every trip perfectly, except once a year it tries to kill you.

 

[FlyingPoint]

Absolutely these are irresponsible drivers.

But their ignorance is fed directly by Tesla marketing.

Where do you think they got the idea this was safe? Why aren’t drivers of other manufacturers doing the same irresponsible things?

It’s not a coincidence.

It’s also perfect that you brought up drinking and driving. Also heard PLENTY of first hand stories of people who think it’s safe to drive a Tesla using FSD while drunk.

Again….. never heard stories of people doing that with other manufacturers.

Why? Because of “full self drive” and “autopilot.” People honestly think the car “drives itself.” Also a phrase I hear repeated often.

Your kidding right? What about all the "boy racers" in their M3 Comp's? I have read most if not all of your posts, this is way out of character for a thoughtful individual that you have aways demontstrate to be. I give you a pass on this one.

 

[69Mach390]

Your kidding right? What about all the "boy racers" in their M3 Comp's? I have read most if not all of your posts, this is way out of character for a thoughtful individual that you have aways demontstrate to be. I give you a pass on this one.

Not kidding at all.

People have been abusing Tesla’s FSD and autopilot for years. There was an entire industry for aftermarket counterweights to trick the system to be hands free. I don’t see that with other manufacturers.

Not sure what people driving BMW’s like idiots has to do with people driving drunk in a Tesla other than “both are bad.” Plenty of blame to go around for the drivers and how Tesla marketed things. If they cared about safety, they wouldn’t have had to been forced to add more restrictions on later models after deaths, NHTSA investigations and lawsuits.

 

[whitex]

It’s also perfect that you brought up drinking and driving. Also heard PLENTY of first hand stories of people who think it’s safe to drive a Tesla using FSD while drunk.

To be honest, I think it's just an excuse. The same type of people who claimed in the past they are just fine driving after a few drinks, simply use FSD as a justification, but had there not been FSD, they'd still drive intoxicated (and plenty do). Way back around 2017 I met a drunk guy at a casino, who was telling people Tesla FSD drives him, so he doesn't need to be sober to drive home. At that time, FSD enabled car didn't even turn their headlights on automatically (the AP2 computer code was not ready), but the Tesla website claimed full self driving, so the guy just used it as an excuse. I don't even know whether he even owned a Tesla.

 

[69Mach390]

To be honest, I think it's just an excuse. The same type of people who claimed in the past they are just fine driving after a few drinks, simply use FSD as a justification, but had there not been FSD, they'd still drive intoxicated (and plenty do). Way back around 2017 I met a drunk guy at a casino, who was telling people Tesla FSD drives him, so he doesn't need to be sober to drive home. At that time, FSD enabled car didn't even turn their headlights on automatically (the AP2 computer code was not ready), but the Tesla website claimed full self driving, so the guy just used it as an excuse. I don't even know whether he even owned a Tesla.

Maybe?

Or maybe it’s just another example of how people put way too much faith in Tesla’s FSD capabilities.

They think it’s infallible. Kinda like how whenever Tesla comes up on forums people always rush to their defense and Tesla “can do no wrong.”

I think the people abusing the FSD and especially those driving drunk are absolute morons and putting themselves and the people around them in extreme danger.

But I also give some of that blame to Tesla for their marketing practices that make people think it’s safer than it actually is. The article at the beginning of this thread is just one of many examples.

 

[AutoX]

Google/Waymo research found that it’s not true. Paradoxically, the better the FSD gets, the more dangerous it becomes to the supervising human.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/07/technology/google-self-driving-cars-handoff-problem.html

Think about it, how ready to take over would you be if your car drove itself every day, every trip perfectly, except once a year it tries to kill you.

No Autonomy system will be perfect, but it's already better than the avg human driver. So if you're looking at the macro picture, FSD will try to kill you less than you trying to kill yourself.

Insurance companies are starting to back FSD with lower rates confirming that they believe that FSD is safer and less accident prone:

https://insideevs.com/news/785085/test-fsd-lemonade-cost-reduce/

 

[AutoX]

Absolutely these are irresponsible drivers.

But their ignorance is fed directly by Tesla marketing.

Where do you think they got the idea this was safe? Why aren’t drivers of other manufacturers doing the same irresponsible things?

It’s not a coincidence.

It’s also perfect that you brought up drinking and driving. Also heard PLENTY of first hand stories of people who think it’s safe to drive a Tesla using FSD while drunk.

Again….. never heard stories of people doing that with other manufacturers.

Why? Because of “full self drive” and “autopilot.” People honestly think the car “drives itself.” Also a phrase I hear repeated often.

Let's say that they believed the FSD hype 100%. Any rational person with any sense of self-preservation would realize after the first incident where FSD ask you to take over or performed a dangerous maneuver that they would been to be more attentive. If the driver continues to work on their laptop/watch movies despite that then they would of done so with or without FSD hype.

I can tell you from all my family members/friends that have tried FSD that not a single person trust FSD 100% on the first drive. In fact they are very tentative, hyperfocus, and ready to take over. It's only after a few drives do they become more comfortable. I would find it hard to believe that despite the marketing that there are many drivers that would jump in a Tesla with FSD for the first time and set it and just not pay attention. That's just not how most people operate.

 

[AutoX]

Maybe?

Or maybe it’s just another example of how people put way too much faith in Tesla’s FSD capabilities.

They think it’s infallible. Kinda like how whenever Tesla comes up on forums people always rush to their defense and Tesla “can do no wrong.”

I think the people abusing the FSD and especially those driving drunk are absolute morons and putting themselves and the people around them in extreme danger.

But I also give some of that blame to Tesla for their marketing practices that make people think it’s safer than it actually is. The article at the beginning of this thread is just one of many examples.

It's not that we think that Tesla can do no wrong. But rather that people that are bashing Tesla because they hate Elon due to his political leanings (DEI/Trans issue in particular) and not because Tesla is particularly bad. It's hard to argue about the virtue of FSD with someone that has never experienced it and is only regurgitating talking points. I feel the same way talking about EVs with anti EV/petroheads. If they're not open to change, no amount of data will change their minds, until they try the tech themselves.

People have no problem getting into an Uber with an unknown driver. They don't know the driver ability, how long they been driving, whether they're on medications/alcohol or even their mood that day. Yet they won't trust a system that has been proven to be safer than the avg driver by a factor of 3 and improving with every update.

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