400v dc charging option, 19.2 kw charger? protection film?

[ismelllikepoop]

trying to figure out the options to put on my build. i read the 400v is helpful at charging stations to reduce time, but i've been reading threads where people say this option is useless. what is the 19.2kw option for, haven't read much about it. also i know the protection film option is pricey compared to typical shops, but how is the quality? i've gotten tiny rock chips just driving new cars home in LA traffic. if the quality is nice, would be worth it to have it already on if the film/install is good quality.

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[whitex]

400V 150KW upgrade (over 50KW) charging is not useful in the US today. However, with Elon announcing that Tesla is planning to open their superchargers to the rest of the industry, it could become very useful to charge there. At $460 to me it's worth a shot - Tesla does have a lot of superchargers around.

19.2KW option is useful if you are planning to have an 80A charger at home, or if you encounter ones along your travels. There are some out there. Note however that you can usually charge overnight at 40A just fine. Where 80A comes handy is if you have a Time Of Use pricing where electricity is cheapest during some time window and that window does not give you enough time to charge to your desired level of charge. It also sometimes comes handy if you stop at home for just a few hours in the middle of a busy driving day. I have an 80A/19.2KW capable charging and EV at home (Tesla, not a Porsche yet), and it comes handy 2-3 times a year (before COVID) and it used to come handy on one particular long distance travel I did a few times, as there was one 80A charger I used to stop by to fill up just enough to reach the next DC charger, but since then Tesla built out their superchargers, so I don't use it there anymore.

Personally I am planning to get both, but if you are budget constrained, I would pick the 400V charging upgrade over 19.2KW charger because it's cheaper and on the chance that Tesla will open their superchargers to the rest of the industry. The incentive for them is to qualify for government grants from the Biden infrastructure trillion dollar spending package, which requires the charging network to not be locked in to one manufacturer only. My wife's Tesla only has 48A charging (like the standard Taycan) and she is doing fine with it. On the odd situation she needs a quick charge, there is a DC supercharger 15m away from the house.

 

[daveo4EV]

trying to figure out the options to put on my build. i read the 400v is helpful at charging stations to reduce time, but i've been reading threads where people say this option is useless. what is the 19.2kw option for, haven't read much about it. also i know the protection film option is pricey compared to typical shops, but how is the quality? i've gotten tiny rock chips just driving new cars home in LA traffic. if the quality is nice, would be worth it to have it already on if the film/install is good quality.

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...r-19-2kw-vs-150-kw-400v-which-do-i-need.6188/

 

[ismelllikepoop]

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...r-19-2kw-vs-150-kw-400v-which-do-i-need.6188/

don't know how i skipped over that thread, had about 30 different windows open reading.

 

[f10tt]

99% of factory PPF is terrible. Edges showing that get caught or peel and the precut pieces don't fit great. For a decent amount cheaper you can get ppf installed locally and it'll usually be much better.

 

[ismelllikepoop]

99% of factory PPF is terrible. Edges showing that get caught or peel and the precut pieces don't fit great. For a decent amount cheaper you can get ppf installed locally and it'll usually be much better.

anyone with actual experience with porsche though? as much as they nickel and dime, i've felt that porsche usually does a really good job with whatever they do. not necessarily to everyone's taste but well done.

 

[Genau]

anyone with actual experience with porsche though? as much as they nickel and dime, i've felt that porsche usually does a really good job with whatever they do. not necessarily to everyone's taste but well done.

Do we have any idea who installs the "factory order" PPF? If Porsche actually installs the PPF at the factory, that is one thing. Otherwise, we should know who exactly is installing our PPF, their materials, methods, and expertise.

 

[ismelllikepoop]

Do we have any idea who installs the "factory order" PPF? If Porsche actually installs the PPF at the factory, that is one thing. Otherwise, we should know who exactly is installing our PPF, their materials, methods, and expertise.

that's why i'm asking, if anyone actually knows, or has any experience. if they just farm it out and collect basically a referral fee then there's no point, but if it's done at the factory then i could see it being worthwhile, even if it is expensive

 

[whitex]

Related rumor/leak of Tesla opening up their network to non-Tesla cars:
https://electrek.co/2023/01/22/tesla-leaks-magic-dock-ccs-adapter-opening-supercharger-network/

If that happens, having the $460, 150KW 400V DC charging option in a Taycan will mean triple charging speed at Tesla superchargers.

 

[daveo4EV]

Related rumor/leak of Tesla opening up their network to non-Tesla cars:
https://electrek.co/2023/01/22/tesla-leaks-magic-dock-ccs-adapter-opening-supercharger-network/

If that happens, having the $460, 150KW 400V DC charging option in a Taycan will mean triple charging speed at Tesla superchargers.

yep - I'm wondering if they are going to adjust cable lengths - but we'll see how this goes - I think it will be well along by end of 2023 -and mostly done by end of 2024 - with all new sites being CCS form the get go…

 

[whitex]

yep - I'm wondering if they are going to adjust cable lengths - but we'll see how this goes - I think it will be well along by end of 2023 -and mostly done by end of 2024 - with all new sites being CCS form the get go…

One thing I learned with Tesla is to never assume ANY timelines.

That said, their solution looks pretty clever. I am speculating here, because details are scarce so I don't have confirmation, but if it was me I would have done it just like this:

1. Have an adapter available at each supercharger
2. Secure the adapter by having a mechanical or electro-mechanical interlock which requires it to always be attached to at least one of the two things: Tesla DC charging connector, or the supercharger enclosure. This way nobody can take off with just the adapter, purposefully or by accident - never release both ends of the adapter at the same time.
3. When not in use, the adapter is in the base, it could even serve as a holster for the DC connector (though not sure about that though as pin wear might make it a bad idea)
4. When someone grabs the cable, it works just like today, they get a Tesla connector
5. When a non-Tesla want to charge, they initiate the session which will unlock the adapter, but only if the Tesla DC adapter is plugged into it, and that mechanical connection is locked before unlocking from the base.
   

 

[DougFrisk]

One thing I learned with Tesla is to never assume ANY timelines.

That said, their solution looks pretty clever. I am speculating here, because details are scarce so I don't have confirmation, but if it was me I would have done it just like this:

1. Have an adapter available at each supercharger
2. Secure the adapter by having a mechanical or electro-mechanical interlock which requires it to always be attached to at least one of the two things: Tesla DC charging connector, or the supercharger enclosure. This way nobody can take off with just the adapter, purposefully or by accident - never release both ends of the adapter at the same time.
3. When not in use, the adapter is in the base, it could even serve as a holster for the DC connector (though not sure about that though as pin wear might make it a bad idea)
4. When someone grabs the cable, it works just like today, they get a Tesla connector
5. When a non-Tesla want to charge, they initiate the session which will unlock the adapter, but only if the Tesla DC adapter is plugged into it, and that mechanical connection is locked before unlocking from the base.

Honestly, the solution looks overly complicated. One charging pedestal two cables, one Tesla, the other CCS would offer far fewer potential issues. It's also something that consumers would understand intuitively given it's exactly the way current gas station pumps work, grab the hose with the right fuel for your car.

An adapter that sometimes locks itself to the pedestal, sometimes locks itself to the charging cable, and can pass through the CCS communication through the Tesla cable is just needless complication.

 

[whitex]

Honestly, the solution looks overly complicated. One charging pedestal two cables, one Tesla, the other CCS would offer far fewer potential issues. It's also something that consumers would understand intuitively given it's exactly the way current gas station pumps work, grab the hose with the right fuel for your car.

An adapter that sometimes locks itself to the pedestal, sometimes locks itself to the charging cable, and can pass through the CCS communication through the Tesla cable is just needless complication.

Adapter solution is much easier to implement and quicker to retrofit. A second cable requires considerably more hardware, for example, you have to control each cable separately since they both cannot be active at the same time, or it would be a major safety hazard. 400V and hundreds of Amps even simple cut off relay (contactor actually) is pricey and adds another point of failure which has to be designed against, maintained, etc. Note that Taycan (and eTron GT) actually uses the interlock concept as well with its two charge ports for the exact same reason - if it allowed both ports to be open at the same time, when charging from one port you could electrocute yourself if you touched the pins or there was water around, etc. Note that those interlocking ports only protect while AC charging, DC charging would be worse, more dangerous (but Taycan only has the DC pins on one side, probably because the interlock was insufficient for safety at 800V).

I get it might be slightly more intuitive the first time, but so would just adding a CCS socket on a Tesla instead of an adapter, yet Tesla went the adapter route.

Then again, if the adapter is also the holster, it becomes brain dead easy to use, when you unholster the cable, it will either have the adapter already on if you initiated CCS session, and not on when initiating a Tesla charging session.

 

[tchavei]

There's option 3 (which is what is happening in Europe)

Open the network to non-teslas...

...period

Want to charge? Get an adaptor yourself.

 

[whitex]

There's option 3 (which is what is happening in Europe)

Open the network to non-teslas...

...period

Want to charge? Get an adaptor yourself.

That is an interesting option, but my guess is selling an expensive adapter might not qualify Tesla as opening the network to non-Teslas as far as government grants are concerned. It's not just a simple wire adapter, it needs to contain a bunch of electronics in it to translate protocols. Tesla had a 50KW Chademo adapter once (allows Teslas to charge from ChaDeMo) and it was ~$600 10 years ago IIRC, so ~$1,000 today. To make it 250KW (5x the power) the price might end up being $2,500 or more.

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