Cayenne EV First-Drive Reviews Are Here

[prj]

Newer tech, newer motor, newer battery, everything is current gen on the cayenne, while the Macan EV is much the same as the taycan, outdated already.

It's the exact same motor as the Taycan and Macan and pretty much the same battery as the Taycan. It's also NMC811 pouch by LG Chem.
There are some very slight structural differences, so the Cayenne pack technically has 5% more power density gross per weight unit, but it also depends what you include in the battery weight. This is clear also from the charging curve in that the Cayenne basically has a proportional increase based on battery size, but the C is pretty much the same.

The Cayenne Turbo is basically a Taycan Turbo GT from the powertrain. But it In fact it has 10 kW less than the Turbo GT actually does. The pack is slightly larger so they can make a higher power claim, as it maintains that power at least until 60-70% or so unlike the Turbo GT.

The Macan has a CATL battery with prismatic cells, which is completely different from Taycan and Cayenne, but still the same PPE motor.

The only difference is in the infotainment system, which depending on whether you want a screen on wheels or a car matters much or extremely little.

Stop throwing out word salad when you don't know what is actually used in the car. The Cayenne powertrain is pretty much the same as the Taycan J1.2 and is not somehow more advanced. In fact the gearbox in the J1.2 means it destroys the Cayenne in high speed efficiency and also the reason why the Turbo GT absolutely destroys it in the 0-100km/h time. They didn't bother with that in the Cayenne since the PPE motor doesn't need it and also it's a brick anyway so the extra gains aren't worth the complexity.

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[chun]

It's the exact same motor as the Taycan and Macan and pretty much the same battery as the Taycan. It's also NMC811 pouch by LG Chem.
There are some very slight structural differences, so the Cayenne pack technically has 5% more power density gross per weight unit, but it also depends what you include in the battery weight. This is clear also from the charging curve in that the Cayenne basically has a proportional increase based on battery size, but the C is pretty much the same.

The Cayenne Turbo is basically a Taycan Turbo GT from the powertrain. But it In fact it has 10 kW less than the Turbo GT actually does. The pack is slightly larger so they can make a higher power claim, as it maintains that power at least until 60-70% or so unlike the Turbo GT.

The Macan has a CATL battery with prismatic cells, which is completely different from Taycan and Cayenne, but still the same PPE motor.

The only difference is in the infotainment system, which depending on whether you want a screen on wheels or a car matters much or extremely little.

Stop throwing out word salad when you don't know what is actually used in the car. The Cayenne powertrain is pretty much the same as the Taycan J1.2 and is not somehow more advanced. In fact the gearbox in the J1.2 means it destroys the Cayenne in high speed efficiency and also the reason why the Turbo GT absolutely destroys it in the 0-100km/h time. They didn't bother with that in the Cayenne since the PPE motor doesn't need it and also it's a brick anyway so the extra gains aren't worth the complexity.

Doesn’t the cayenne have a different rear motor, in an oil bath? Which has higher rpm and a better thermal management?

The battery structure is also different. Its cooling configuration is different and quite more powerful; I have seen it torn down. So while the cells may be the same, the battery as a whole is not. But the cells are also not the same. Cayenne uses NCMA cells, taycan uses plain old NCM. NCMA which introduces aluminum in the chemistry, has higher life cycles, higher density, higher output, everything is better.

And even if all was identical as you claim; I am sure that for a user vastly better software, higher efficiency and superior charging peak speed makes a difference.

But it’s not identical, no. Definitely not identical to the Macan gts.

There is no word vomit. Different battery enclosure, different chemistry, different cooling, different software arhitecture, different motor setup, higher power, higher charging curve. These are significant differences which makes the Cayenne more technologically advanced, and more in line with the competition.

It’s also funny that when asked if you’ll offer a mod for it like you do for the taycan, you said they are completely different, and now you say they are basically indentical

 

[chun]

Me too. So far, based on reviews, the Cayenne EV is universally praised for being the best handling SUV. It has also been independently tested to have ~350 mile range at 70 mph by three respected YouTube reviewers. This range is class leading. Maybe the smaller BMW iX3 or Volvo EX60 P12 can be in the same range but neither will handle nearly as well. A base model can be reasonbly built for $122K. This is about 20% more cost for a bit more space, a bit more luxury and much better handling. Plus that BMW is simply hard to look at and Volvo has a poor track record, that hopefully changes, with EV software.

It’s a bit not fair though, because they say it’s the best handling SUV when talking about the highest trim with all driving focused options, which is double the price of the bmw or the macan.

I’m not sure how many people will go for that highest trim, looking at how many went for the highest trim taycan (the taycan GT).

Between a base Cayenne EV and the bmw ix3, I would take the bmw. But the Cayenne turbo is for sure the superior driving car.

 

[taycan_ct]

It’s a bit not fair though, because they say it’s the best handling SUV when talking about the highest trim with all driving focused options, which is double the price of the bmw or the macan.

I’m not sure how many people will go for that highest trim, looking at how many went for the highest trim taycan (the taycan GT).

The iX3 isn’t a rival to the Cayenne as it is much smaller. More so an iX.

 

[chun]

The iX3 isn’t a rival to the Cayenne as it is much smaller. More so an iX.

By interior space, not that big of a difference, but yes, by size, definitely not rivals. Was comparing more in terms of "tech"/EV side.

 

[prj]

Doesn’t the cayenne have a different rear motor, in an oil bath? Which has higher rpm and a better thermal management?

It's a PPE motor. There's nothing special about it - you can have more cooling which is needed because they didn't put a gearbox in it.

The battery structure is also different. Its cooling configuration is different and quite more powerful; I have seen it torn down. So while the cells may be the same, the battery as a whole is not. But the cells are also not the same. Cayenne uses NCMA cells, taycan uses plain old NCM. NCMA which introduces aluminum in the chemistry, has higher life cycles, higher density, higher output, everything is better.

"Everything is better" - by a few percent. It's still LG Pouch. Pack density is around 5% just weighing the battery packs. Theoretical temperature resistance 5%?
Cycle life could be different, but then cycle life is not a problem even on the J1.1, never mind the J1.2, and as far as I know there is no calendar aging advantage in a NMCA battery, which is the #1 problem.

And even if all was identical as you claim; I am sure that for a user vastly better software, higher efficiency and superior charging peak speed makes a difference.

It does not have higher efficiency, what are you on about?
The charging speed is a little higher, but because the efficiency is significantly lower at high speed, then for long range travel the Taycan charges more km/min.

There is no word vomit. Different battery enclosure, different chemistry, different cooling, different software arhitecture, different motor setup, higher power, higher charging curve. These are significant differences which makes the Cayenne more technologically advanced, and more in line with the competition.

It's basically a Turbo GT powertrain/inverter with some small improvements. You make it sound like it's a massive difference when it's not. Also because it has no gearbox, then the acceleration is worse at lower speeds and the efficiency is worse at higher speeds (compared to non turbo-gt taycans, because the turbo gt has a bunch of aero unlike the cayenne). But sure, it's cheaper to make. The Cayenne Turbo with 11% higher claimed power and around 11% more weight accelerates around 25% worse 0-100km/h than the Taycan Turbo GT - and much of that is because it has the same motor/inverter with no gearbox.

It’s also funny that when asked if you’ll offer a mod for it like you do for the taycan, you said they are completely different, and now you say they are basically indentical

The electronic control concept is different, not the hardware. It has a completely different powertrain controller from Bosch, the Taycan is Continental/Vitesco like MEB and the fat e-tron. It also has suspension control and a bunch of other stuff integrated into it, unlike the modular approach in the Taycan.
Obviously the exploit that we use on the Continental controller is in no way applicable to the Bosch HCP1.

 

[PorscheTaycan]

Is it sacrilegious to wish for a 7-seater version? That's what my wife is looking for in an SUV EV - we got the Mercedes EQB in the end, but I would have preferred a Macan or Cayenne ideally.

 

[chun]

Is it sacrilegious to wish for a 7-seater version? That's what my wife is looking for in an SUV EV - we got the Mercedes EQB in the end, but I would have preferred a Macan or Cayenne ideally.

The K was supposed to be that I think, but i think they are redeveloping it to support 3 types of power trains, so maybe not such a good EV. Probably after 2030. Remains to be seen.

 

[chun]

You make it sound like it's a massive difference when it's not.

All the 5%'s add up enough to make it competitive with other EVs on the market, as opposed to the taycan

For the end user, what you describe as small differences, added up, are a big difference. Sadly, the price is also big. We'll see if the turbo sells better than the taycan GT

 

[prj]

All the 5%'s add up enough to make it competitive with other EVs on the market, as opposed to the taycan

No it does not when the Taycan has literally faster acceleration, has more range where it matters and charges faster km/min during long range trips because of the superior efficiency.

The WLTP city range is completely irrelevant. Who cares if it can do 700 or 650km theoretically in the city.

 

[chun]

No it does not when the Taycan has literally faster acceleration, has more range where it matters and charges faster km/min during long range trips because of the superior efficiency.

The WLTP city range is completely irrelevant. Who cares if it can do 700 or 650km theoretically in the city.

The people that buy Cayenne, mums that go to the supermarket and school.

Why even bring efficiency up? Taycan is literally one of the worst EVs in this regard.

Again; with all the “little” improvements, it ends up being a better EV than the taycan.

The taycan has shit efficiency, shit interior space, shit software, and subpar charging speed even when compare to other European EV, like the BMW.

No matter how small you think these changes are, in an end product, they add up, and there are many change as I have listed above: Different battery enclosure, different chemistry, different cooling, different software arhitecture, different motor setup, higher power, higher charging curve.

 

[prj]

The people that buy Cayenne, mums that go to the supermarket and school.

Why even bring efficiency up? Taycan is literally one of the worst EVs in this regard.

You did. You said the Cayenne EV is more efficient when it's clearly not.
You said it charges faster, but in case of range travelled - clearly not. For same amount of range the Cayenne will need more charging stops, because the efficiency is really bad at 130km/h.

Again; with all the “little” improvements, it ends up being a better EV than the taycan.

What improvements exactly? Bigger screen?

The taycan has shit efficiency, shit interior space, shit software,

Taycan is also set up to have sporty handling and suspension geometry. It's not a soccer mom car.
A 911 also has "shit interior space", as does a Ferrari SF90 lol. The interior on a Taycan is like an Audi RS4 or BMW M3.

The comparatively lower efficiency is because it's running 305 wide tyres and not looking like a soapbox. Not because of the drivetrain. I mean the 2020 model that you have is old yes, but the facelift has good efficiency, both from the drivetrain and from the HVAC system.

and subpar charging speed even when compare to other European EV, like the BMW.

What BMW? iX3? I'd never want to be seen in that monstrosity. But why not compare to Denza Z9 GT, this is cheaper and has 2x faster charging speed than even BMW iX3.

Taycan is an older model on it's way out, we have maybe 1-2 years left of it. Now, when the next gen comes our your criticism is going to be valid, but this came out in 2020, and it's better on many metrics than almost all EV that came out then. The facelift makes it more than OK even in 2025 and 2026, of course you can't expect to be top of the line anymore.
But the Cayenne is brand new, and that's just bad on those metrics - worse efficiency than the Taycan, insane price on the Turbo variant, and it's nothing special. You have 100 other SUV to choose from.

No matter how small you think these changes are, in an end product, they add up, and there are many change as I have listed above: Different battery enclosure, different chemistry, different cooling, different software arhitecture, different motor setup, higher power, higher charging curve.

Higher power, but it is 25% slower 0-100km/h?
The Cayenne Turbo is slower than even a Taycan Turbo S, and it's not because of the weight. The Turbo S has much less power.

All your shit is on paper, but reality is something else.

 

[chun]

You did. You said the Cayenne EV is more efficient when it's clearly not.
You said it charges faster, but in case of range travelled - clearly not. For same amount of range the Cayenne will need more charging stops, because the efficiency is really bad at 130km/h.


What improvements exactly? Bigger screen?


Taycan is also set up to have sporty handling and suspension geometry. It's not a soccer mom car.
A 911 also has "shit interior space", as does a Ferrari SF90 lol. The interior on a Taycan is like an Audi RS4 or BMW M3.

The comparatively lower efficiency is because it's running 305 wide tyres and not looking like a soapbox. Not because of the drivetrain. I mean the 2020 model that you have is old yes, but the facelift has good efficiency, both from the drivetrain and from the HVAC system.


What BMW? iX3? I'd never want to be seen in that monstrosity. But why not compare to Denza Z9 GT, this is cheaper and has 2x faster charging speed than even BMW iX3.

Taycan is an older model on it's way out, we have maybe 1-2 years left of it. Now, when the next gen comes our your criticism is going to be valid, but this came out in 2020, and it's better on many metrics than almost all EV that came out then. The facelift makes it more than OK even in 2025 and 2026, of course you can't expect to be top of the line anymore.
But the Cayenne is brand new, and that's just bad on those metrics - worse efficiency than the Taycan, insane price on the Turbo variant, and it's nothing special. You have 100 other SUV to choose from.


Higher power, but it is 25% slower 0-100km/h?
The Cayenne Turbo is slower than even a Taycan Turbo S, and it's not because of the weight. The Turbo S has much less power.

All your shit is on paper, but reality is something else.

Reality is it has a higher charging peak, reality is it has newer more performant software arhitecture, reality is it has an improved motor due to the oil bath, reality is that it has a new chemistry, reality is that it has a new battery enclosure with cooling on top and bottom.

I assume you are suggesting that porsche is stagnating, by implying these are not improvments, and porsche wasted R&D money on non-improvments?

I am not comparing it to Denza because most people on the forum are biased against the fact that chinese EVs are superior in terms of tech.

I never said taycan was always shit, especially not when it came out, i am saying it is shit now in the current EV market, by comparision against BMW, chinese EVs or even Mercedes's new "budget" 4 door sedan.

Taycan is a 4 door sedan, no matter how much you may think it's a 911 with 4 doors. And as a sedan, it fails at interior space

 

[prj]

Reality is it has a higher charging peak, reality is it has newer more performant software arhitecture, reality is it has an improved motor due to the oil bath, reality is that it has a new chemistry, reality is that it has a new battery enclosure with cooling on top and bottom.

The only reason the motor has that is because there is no gearbox, so it needs the additional cooling to go 260km/h without the gearbox. It's not better, it's the same PPE motor.

IDGAF about screens in a car, if I primarily wanted that, I would drive a Tesla Plaid.
The whole magic of the Taycan is in the suspension.

I assume you are suggesting that porsche is stagnating, by implying these are not improvments, and porsche wasted R&D money on non-improvments?

You have to recognize what is an improvement, what is an eventuality and what is done just because money was saved elsewhere. The gearbox is expensive, so they saved money by making the motor operate at higher RPM, and it's still slower because the gear ratio is between the 1st and 2nd gear of the Taycan. That's why the Turbo S is faster with significantly less power than the new Cayenne with all the improved stuff.

I am not comparing it to Denza because most people on the forum are biased against the fact that chinese EVs are superior in terms of tech.

Yet I am sure the Denza suspension is complete shit. At least every BYD I have driven the suspension is piss poor.

I never said taycan was always shit, especially not when it came out, i am saying it is shit now in the current EV market

Great logic, let's take an 6 year old car and shit on it
Even the facelift is over 2 years old. What was there comparable 2 years ago that you could buy in Europe? I don't care about a mythical unicorn somewhere that is unavailable.

Taycan is a 4 door sedan, no matter how much you may think it's a 911 with 4 doors. And as a sedan, it fails at interior space

If you don't care about the handling and the suspension, then it's not the car for you. For soccer moms there are many other cars, that have a lot of interior space.
To even complain about the space in the Taycan means not understanding anything at all about car development or suspension geometry. Of course a little is also sacrificed so it does not look like shit.
Also, I don't "think" it is a 911 with 4 doors. It's designed exactly to be that. That's why it's 5 meters long and almost 2 meters wide. It's the only reason. If you drop that requirement, then it would be a much smaller car with the same amount of space. It would drive nothing like it does though.

The first car that is coming that might make the Taycan obsolete is the AMG GT EV. Though of course the "interior space" will "suck" there as well. Better buy a SUV

As for VWAG, PPE Evo is coming and the new e-tron GT and Taycan will be based on that, expect something in 2029 if they don't cancel it.
Whether it will be competitive or not with what the market offers I have no idea.

 

[gnr3312]

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