Steering on rear wheels

[Gareth Swain]

Mystified by this love for RWS. I specced a 2023 GTS ST. Tried RWS and chose not to have it because the standard set up is fantastic. Caveat that I avoid tight parking spaces.

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[Watchesandburgers]

At this point the OP has his answer. But let me add one more vote for YES, rear axle steering is a fantastic option. My Taycan with RAS has a much smaller turning radius than my previous Tesla Model S. Would spec this on any future Porsche where available.

 

[f1eng]

Mystified by this love for RWS. I specced a 2023 GTS ST. Tried RWS and chose not to have it because the standard set up is fantastic. Caveat that I avoid tight parking spaces.

I bought it for the vehicle dynamics benefits which will make little difference on a lot of roads so I suppose quite a few drivers may not notice.
The improved turning circle was and is an unexpected bonus.

 

[Tay Chi]

You won't be able to tell

Car handles well regardless and RAS enhances. PTV+ might be worth considering

Agree with this. I would tick the option if I was speccing, but not a must have.

 

[parkslopedope]

Unequivocally, yes.

 

[Murph7355]

Assuming you're planning on getting a new model, it's probably worth reconfirming that what I'm about to describe is still true. If it is, though, you might want to consider not optioning Remote Park Assist.
...

I had a need to use this a week or two back...a considerate parker had parked their car so close to mine that I couldn't open the driver's door.

I used remote park assist to extract the car.

Had I not had it, I'd have had to wait until the lovely Range Rover owner came back to their car and shifted it.

Granted, and edge case (hopefully!). But useful.

 

[Murph7355]

Mystified by this love for RWS. I specced a 2023 GTS ST. Tried RWS and chose not to have it because the standard set up is fantastic. Caveat that I avoid tight parking spaces.

Going back to back in cars with/without down my favourite b-roads showed a massive difference in agility and stability to me. Wouldn't have one without it.

 

[W1NGE]

Were the cars identical in every other respect?

 

[4sCT21]

I'm hoping i get to drive with and without. I'm of the mindset that if it truly improves higher speed stability and slow speed manoeuvring, it's a no brainer.

But i speak from zero experience.

One mate "it's the best thing ever."
Another "spend it on other spec."

 

[f1eng]

Were the cars identical in every other respect?

PMFJI I have only compared 2 CT4S one with rear steer, torque vectoring and active anti roll bars (mine) and one without (a loan car) and the difference on a very twisty uneven road I know well was much bigger than I expected.

As an engineer I would hesitate to allocate all the difference to the rear wheel steer but based on my racing setup experience I don't think the active ARBs were a big part of it and since torque vectoring is like a high tech LSD I do tend to think RWS was important.

I am familiar with the reason Porsche started experimenting with a passive rear steer system starting with the 993, and the standard passive suspension on the Taycan and afaik all other Porsches exploits flexible bushes in suspension linkages to influence rear toe-in between power and lift off anyway, the active system just can do more and better.

FWIW the handling characteristic of old 911s attributed by so many to it being rear engined was actually initiated by the lift off toe out of the semi-trailing arm suspension.

We tested rear wheel steer with Michael Schumacher at Benneton in 1993 or 1994. It had quite a big and predictable influence on handling and balance but, since it didn't increase grip, didn't make much lap time difference to a driver of his ability. We never raced it and it is banned now.

Having written all that if you mainly drive motorways and don't drive like you stole it on back roads it probably isn't worth it.

Of the options I chose I would definitely get it again.

 

[Vercingetorix]

Porsches been at this since the 70s.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weissach_axle

 

[Murph7355]

Were the cars identical in every other respect?

No.

But I could feel what the rear wheels were doing.

As a slightly obvious difference, I reverse park into my garage. My car needs less space than the loaner did.

 

[W1NGE]

PMFJI I have only compared 2 CT4S one with rear steer, torque vectoring and active anti roll bars (mine) and one without (a loan car) and the difference on a very twisty uneven road I know well was much bigger than I expected.

As an engineer I would hesitate to allocate all the difference to the rear wheel steer but based on my racing setup experience I don't think the active ARBs were a big part of it and since torque vectoring is like a high tech LSD I do tend to think RWS was important.

I am familiar with the reason Porsche started experimenting with a passive rear steer system starting with the 993, and the standard passive suspension on the Taycan and afaik all other Porsches exploits flexible bushes in suspension linkages to influence rear toe-in between power and lift off anyway, the active system just can do more and better.

FWIW the handling characteristic of old 911s attributed by so many to it being rear engined was actually initiated by the lift off toe out of the semi-trailing arm suspension.

We tested rear wheel steer with Michael Schumacher at Benneton in 1993 or 1994. It had quite a big and predictable influence on handling and balance but, since it didn't increase grip, didn't make much lap time difference to a driver of his ability. We never raced it and it is banned now.

Having written all that if you mainly drive motorways and don't drive like you stole it on back roads it probably isn't worth it.

Of the options I chose I would definitely get it again.

Frank, I wish I had had your life, so many awesome memories and stories!

I had RAS on my 4S and now PTV+ on my GTS (as standard) with RAS (as an option) and to be honest I don't discern an appreciable difference. I've not had PDCC on either car but have had on previous Porsches).

Perhaps I don't fly too low and like to keep it between the hedges!

All these "gadgets" have their place and in truth should be standard at this price level but when budget matters then "must haves" can be quite subjective and certainly ought not to detract from the ownership experience if not optioned.

Next time around (if there is one) I might go all out for RAS, PTV+ and PAS rather than allocate some of that budget to Oak Green Neo which I'm favouring right now!

 

[4sCT21]

Porsche Stockport (i think) have a gorgeous Taycan in a green ive not seen before. I'm guessing it's Oak green neo maybe, stunning colour.

 

[f1eng]

All these "gadgets" have their place and in truth should be standard at this price level but when budget matters then "must haves" can be quite subjective and certainly ought not to detract from the ownership experience if not optioned.

I quite agree. What should be standard is always at issue, overall I am happy because a glass roof and privacy glass are usually standard on up-market models and I dislike both!

I discussed the various chassis options with a Grand Prix driver I am friendly with who is also a Porsche ambassador who gives advice during development. I had already chosen torque vectoring and rear steer but was concerned about the active anti roll bars being expensive. He felt they were worth it so I specified it instead of a racetex headlining!

I was surprised a driver like me felt the difference so readily when I had the loan car without.

I can understand that they make a difference many may never have an opportunity to feel compared to more power but for my use more power is not worth the money compared to the chassis options, which are not only a bigger improvement for my use but less expensive than going up a model...

I would order my spec of CT4S again for the reasons I chose it originally so am a happy punter. I regret matrix lights being unavailable but PDLS+ are pretty good.

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