Swapping J1.1 Turbo to J1.2 for max comfort ?

[Gkwan]

Hi guys,
My MY20 Turbo Mission E w/RWS has beautiful looks but after a lot of reading here, I'm starting to wonder if I should switch to a MY25 or 26 with different model/spec to improve the points I don't like (everything else is great).

Rear wheel steering : this post describes exactly what I've been feeling
https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/taycan-rws-issues.27406/
A sort of slight wobbling/instability from the rear that doesn't happen in all conditions.
For my neophyte needs, the advantage I see to RWS is better maneuverability in town. I'm not doing track, or insane speeds on small roads (but I do like driving in a "spirited" way sometimes, obviously). So if this slight unstability is unavoidable then I won't spec it in my next J1.2

Range : that's "fixed" with J1.2 Perf+ battery, should get ~630km WLTP ie 350km in Range at 130km/h on the highway (maybe 400, both being fine for me).

Need best possible Comfort :
@prj 's advice helped a lot : best comfort level is " Cross Turismo MY25 or later + 20'' tires + Active Ride ".
However I want to keep the looks of a Sedan (otherwise I'd switch to the new Cayenne ), so the conclusion is "anything except the GTS and Turbo GT" J1.2 with 20" and PAR.

Seats : I have the 18 positions heated/ventilated, I'll probably go for the 14 positions as I read many people saying it's more comfortable (I'm not large but with Active Ride I should feel less side-to-side movement, so no need anymore to be in a "tightened" lateral seat position I think ?)
I'll keep heated, ventilated and will add massage if it's worth it (didn't try).

Other options : I'll take all the "multimedia" ones, all driving aids, parking aids, etc, more on the "max" end of the spectrum.

Problem is there are so many Taycan sedan models, it's difficult to choose which one to configure :

@prj you said

Black edition 4S is the best bang for the buck. If power is a problem get our tuned module and you have 940 PS

So I'm hesitating between starting with a "4 black" & add stuff (can't see the difference with "4S black" despite Porsche's comparrison tool!!), or even the basic Taycan & add stuff because apparently the black edition is only offered with 21" wheels, while I'll try to stick to 20".
I'll try both I guess

Regarding the "tuned module", is it https://www.mapev.net/taycan-turbo/ ?
I see guys in Paris (BR-Performance), I suppose I can check with them.
I don't necessarily need the 680hp of my Turbo, but it's possible to activate it a few times now & then to have a bit of fun that's a great option

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[CoolDadLo]

Interesting topic by the way you talk you sound like a GTS kind of guy. I’d just be scared that I go from a turbo down to like a 4S and I might be missing the power even though I don’t use it all the time. I think the biggest change might be in the wheel size as far as comfort, and then the active ride, of course, but when I was spec’ing a heavily optioned 4S model, I got into the price where I was pretty close to the GTS. Since you already had one, I’d consider my long-term plans for it. Are you gonna keep it for, Let’s just say five + years or what. It was tough for me to decide to get to 4S or GTS as like you mentioned I don’t think I need the turbo or above as I’m truly aiming to put about 120 miles each day five days a week.

 

[prj]

4S Black edition is cheaper than taking a 4S and putting stuff on it, that's all.
For the seats, it's pure preference. I prefer the 14 way with massage, but maybe you really like the 18 way. Nobody can decide that but you. The 18 way do hug you better and keep you better in place in corners, PAR has nothing to do with that really.

Interesting topic by the way you talk you sound like a GTS kind of guy. I’d just be scared that I go from a turbo down to like a 4S and I might be missing the power even though I don’t use it all the time. I think the biggest change might be in the wheel size as far as comfort, and then the active ride, of course, but when I was spec’ing a heavily optioned 4S model, I got into the price where I was pretty close to the GTS. Since you already had one, I’d consider my long-term plans for it. Are you gonna keep it for, Let’s just say five + years or what. It was tough for me to decide to get to 4S or GTS as like you mentioned I don’t think I need the turbo or above as I’m truly aiming to put about 120 miles each day five days a week.

If he is going to tune the car then it will be 40% faster than his current Turbo, so the power is a huge upgrade, not a downgrade.

 

[Crazymind]

About the rear steering, yes there is something odd.
On my CT at least it was and I could feel it.
I didn’t spec it on my gen 1.2 and do not miss it nor notice anything different using the new car in the same roads and places I used the CT before.
If you are after comfort just try the 4S with 20” and just like that it’s a massive improvement from the gen 1 turbo.

 

[prj]

I agree about the RWS. It does feel weird. But the reduced turning radius is so nice to have.

It's not that I can't make a three point turn, but doing less of them is nice.

If you don't really need the extra maneuverability I would just skip it though.

 

[Gkwan]

4S Black edition is cheaper than taking a 4S and putting stuff on it, that's all.
For the seats, it's pure preference. I prefer the 14 way with massage, but maybe you really like the 18 way. Nobody can decide that but you. The 18 way do hug you better and keep you better in place in corners, PAR has nothing to do with that really.



If he is going to tune the car then it will be 40% faster than his current Turbo, so the power is a huge upgrade, not a downgrade.

Thanks @prj, @CoolDadLo, @Crazymind,
Yep, I wasn't doubting your assessment of the Black Edition being the best bang for bucks right now. 18-way + massage isn't possible, so probably going for 14+massage, better for my back
& this power module is definitely a very interesting option.

I tried many configurations...

RWS : now that it's confirmed, I'll probably skip it - like you PRJ I love the better maneuverability in town, but I think I value more getting rid of this "sloppy" feeling at the rear.
4WD : a must, I'm not ready to loose it

PAR : minimum 4S to spec it => 4S Black makes the most sense but then you're stuck with 21'' wheels, which goes against my goal to maximize comfort - would still be better than my Turbo without PAR but not sure the difference is worth it ?

#1 PT2Q8W63 = T4S Black 21'' + PAR + all options i'd really want = 172K€
#2 PTHQIIQ9 = T4S normal 19" + PAR + most important options = 162K€ (172K€ too with everything)
#3 PT49Z160 = T4 19" without PAR + all options I like = 144K€

Do you think #3 would still feel more comfortable than my MY20 Turbo ? It would also have the best range (~660km WLTP), which would also be a strong reason for me to switch.

Or is #2 the best comfort combo, vs #1 and it's nice 21'' ?
My heart goes to the design of the Black Edition (that's what made me take my Turbo in the 1st place), but if I do switch I'm sticking to the goal of having the nicest ride & range possible out of a Taycan !

 

[prj]

I don't see much point to switch to J1.2 if not taking PAR unless you really need the longer range.

 

[CoolDadLo]

4S Black edition is cheaper than taking a 4S and putting stuff on it, that's all.
For the seats, it's pure preference. I prefer the 14 way with massage, but maybe you really like the 18 way. Nobody can decide that but you. The 18 way do hug you better and keep you better in place in corners, PAR has nothing to do with that really.



If he is going to tune the car then it will be 40% faster than his current Turbo, so the power is a huge upgrade, not a downgrade.

Fairpoint, do you know a lot of people that have tuned

Thanks @prj, @CoolDadLo, @Crazymind,
Yep, I wasn't doubting your assessment of the Black Edition being the best bang for bucks right now. 18-way + massage isn't possible, so probably going for 14+massage, better for my back
& this power module is definitely a very interesting option.

I tried many configurations...

RWS : now that it's confirmed, I'll probably skip i - like you PRJ I love the better maneuverability in town, but I think I value more getting rid of this "sloppy" feeling at the rear.
4WD : a must, I'm not ready to loose it

PAR : minimum 4S to spec it => 4S Black makes the most sense but then you're stuck with 21'' wheels, which goes against my goal to maximize comfort - would still be better than my Turbo without PAR but not sure the difference is worth it ?

#1 PT2Q8W63 = T4S Black 21'' + PAR + all options i'd really want = 172K€
#2 PTHQIIQ9 = T4S normal 19" + PAR + most important options = 162K€ (172K€ too with everything)
#3 PT49Z160 = T4 19" without PAR + all options I like = 144K€

Do you think #3 would still feel more comfortable than my MY20 Turbo ? It would also have the best range (~660km WLTP), which would also be a strong reason for me to switch.

Or is #2 the best comfort combo, vs #1 and it's nice 21'' ?
My heart goes to the design of the Black Edition (that's what made me take my Turbo in the 1st place), but if I do switch I'm sticking to the goal of having the nicest ride & range possible out of a Taycan !

What are your long term goals of longevity in keeping it? I know you want comfort and range. Tires and wheels can always be changed, and to that end so can power….if you choose to tune it. I ask because I’m in a similar space. I’ve opted for the “less power” variant of other vehicles all to achieve minor range deltas, and have always wondered why I didn’t just get what I wanted later. I’d say the T4s with 20s could be your sweet spot. If you option that car out though it creeps into a deferent spec (ala GTS.) Some of the specs look expensive but then when price it out over (my long term usage, say 5+ years of more) then it’s like an extra $30 a month. I like how you’re going for it though. At this point I’m not setting once I cross the 150k threshold and building new. Can’t wait till you get yours. It’s a relatively for sure. Option 1 with 20s or 21s

 

[prj]

Fairpoint, do you know a lot of people that have tuned

We've done hundreds of cars at this point ... So yes.

 

[69Mach390]

Thanks @prj, @CoolDadLo, @Crazymind,
Yep, I wasn't doubting your assessment of the Black Edition being the best bang for bucks right now. 18-way + massage isn't possible, so probably going for 14+massage, better for my back
& this power module is definitely a very interesting option.

I tried many configurations...

RWS : now that it's confirmed, I'll probably skip i - like you PRJ I love the better maneuverability in town, but I think I value more getting rid of this "sloppy" feeling at the rear.
4WD : a must, I'm not ready to loose it

PAR : minimum 4S to spec it => 4S Black makes the most sense but then you're stuck with 21'' wheels, which goes against my goal to maximize comfort - would still be better than my Turbo without PAR but not sure the difference is worth it ?

#1 PT2Q8W63 = T4S Black 21'' + PAR + all options i'd really want = 172K€
#2 PTHQIIQ9 = T4S normal 19" + PAR + most important options = 162K€ (172K€ too with everything)
#3 PT49Z160 = T4 19" without PAR + all options I like = 144K€

Do you think #3 would still feel more comfortable than my MY20 Turbo ? It would also have the best range (~660km WLTP), which would also be a strong reason for me to switch.

Or is #2 the best comfort combo, vs #1 and it's nice 21'' ?
My heart goes to the design of the Black Edition (that's what made me take my Turbo in the 1st place), but if I do switch I'm sticking to the goal of having the nicest ride & range possible out of a Taycan !

If you want maximum comfort, get maximum comfort.

You could do #1 and easily swap wheels for aftermarket 19s or even make money swapping for some factory 19s with someone else.

Wheels should be the least of your concerns as they can be easily changed. Options like PAR? You can’t exactly change that after purchase.

Zero times in my life have I regretted paying extra to get exactly what I want.

Many times I got “almost what I want” because it was a “better deal” only to regret it later.

 

[Gkwan]

Zero times in my life have I regretted paying extra to get exactly what I want.
Many times I got “almost what I want” because it was a “better deal” only to regret it later.

you're absolutely right, exact same feeling when I think of it lol...

I thought I couldn't swap the original 21" for 20" or even 19" because there might be some structural impossibility, or costly brakes type changing as well, stupid me.

So it's as simple as removing the 21" and fitting in 19" in their place, really ??

My understanding is :
Max comfort = PAR + 19" because it gives you the biggest tyre width to smoothen the ride.
21" gives you more control and you're more "sticked" to the asphalt but it's a rougher ride.
Is that correct ?
So that's why you conclude PAR + 20" is the best comfort/control ratio ?
If I go PAR + 19" do I really loose control noticeably (I'm not a pilot obviously), and do I gain in smoothness/comfort noticeable ?

 

[69Mach390]

you're absolutely right, exact same feeling when I think of it lol...

I thought I couldn't swap the original 21" for 20" or even 19" because there might be some structural impossibility, or costly brakes type changing as well, stupid me.

So it's as simple as removing the 21" and fitting in 19" in their place, really ??

My understanding is :
Max comfort = PAR + 19" because it gives you the biggest tyre width to smoothen the ride.
21" gives you more control and you're more "sticked" to the asphalt but it's a rougher ride.
Is that correct ?
So that's why you conclude PAR + 20" is the best comfort/control ratio ?
If I go PAR + 19" do I really loose control noticeably (I'm not a pilot obviously), and do I gain in smoothness/comfort noticeable ?

Wheel size (and tire size) differences will be small but noticeable.

It’s definitely a tradeoff between comfort and handling. Just like the tradeoff you make when you hit the “sport” vs “normal” setting.

Which suspension setting do you drive in now the most? That will tell you which your prioritize.

I believe 19” wheels will fit on the 4S, but not the turbo due to brake sizes. Hopefully someone can clarify.

 

[Gkwan]

Fairpoint, do you know a lot of people that have tuned

What are your long term goals of longevity in keeping it? I know you want comfort and range. Tires and wheels can always be changed, and to that end so can power….if you choose to tune it. I ask because I’m in a similar space. I’ve opted for the “less power” variant of other vehicles all to achieve minor range deltas, and have always wondered why I didn’t just get what I wanted later. I’d say the T4s with 20s could be your sweet spot. If you option that car out though it creeps into a deferent spec (ala GTS.) Some of the specs look expensive but then when price it out over (my long term usage, say 5+ years of more) then it’s like an extra $30 a month. I like how you’re going for it though. At this point I’m not setting once I cross the 150k threshold and building new. Can’t wait till you get yours. It’s a relatively for sure. Option 1 with 20s or 21s

héhé thanks @CoolDadLo
I'd like to keep it enough time to have a wider range of EV options on the used market, ie ~3 years.
Best scenario would be to find a used MY25 which fits, otherwise going for option #1 this 4S black edition that I turned sky blue is really great looking isn't it ? lol

It's not as if I was walking, I'm still happy with my MY20 Turbo so I can wait a little to see what options unfold, and who knows, maybe I'll be convinced by one of the new cars coming out.
I used to be a 100% SUV guy, so I'm eyeing the new Cayenne obviously, but also the new GLC EV.

Sedan wise, I drove the Mercedes CLA EV (-750km WLTP was appealing), but I was *very* disappointed : sloppy driving, entry-level materials used etc - not all the mercedes quality feeling I've had when driving the GLC hybrid MY24 : tried it several times, really great car in all situations, but when I looked up used models it was ~80-85K€ to have the full-optioned model I wanted, while my T Turbo was 75K€, I weighed the pros/cons and realized that a hybrid is kind of stupid, because in every day driving even 300km range is ok.
I want range for when I go on a roadtrip, either at 90, 110 or 130km/h (or more ), to not be compelled to stop every 200km to charge - I mean I drive usually 3h before making a pause so having a real highway range of 400+ km is the sweet spot for me, because then you roughly get 300km out of 70 points of battery, which means you can charge it from 10 to 80 super quick & get back your next 300km.
While in the hybrid GLC's case you end up with 127km WLTP electric, ie ~80km on highway, and 40 liters tank which I'm guessing will last ~400km @130km/h. So at first I was thinking cool, I get 480km on highway, more than enough.
Problem is I'm still using petrol, which I now really dislike, and I will never bother loosing 30 minutes to charge only 80km worth of electrical range. So I'd get 400 + 80 only when I leave the house fully charged, then during the roadtrip I'd end up with a big petrol SUV that has 40L tank, which is useless.
Last year I was driving an Xpeng G9 Performance 550ch, it's like a flying carpet when you set the air suspension on "Comfort +", but if you go to "Sport" it's a joke compared to a Taycan obviously.
I would still choose a G9 over a Macan though, their whole infotainment is super advanced (on par or better than Tesla's), it's really high quality materials, sound system, comfort-oriented (nothing else), and only 78K€ new. I could get ~350km on highway, and charge 10-80 in really less than 20'.
So maybe the Cayenne EV is a good synthesis between both, I'll see when I drive it
Or maybe stick to a sedan, Xiaomi SU7 Max, or Xpeng P7 MY26 - for both the look & feel seems quite great for reasonable bucks.

In the meantime I'm sure I'd be happy with an "upgrade" from my J1.1, hence this crazy idea to swap it after only a few months lol

 

[Gkwan]

Wheel size (and tire size) differences will be small but noticeable.
It’s definitely a tradeoff between comfort and handling. Just like the tradeoff you make when you hit the “sport” vs “normal” setting.
Which suspension setting do you drive in now the most? That will tell you which your prioritize.

I stick to "normal" because of the range, but I almost prefer when I'm in "lift" <30km because the steering column gets stiffer so I don't feel like really loosing handling and it's mostly more comfortable, I suspect that if the limit was 50km/h instead of 30, and I didn't have the Rear steering wheels adding this somewhat weird feeling, I'd stick to that in town.
But the "Sport" gives more precision, and even if it's less comfortable than "normal" or "lift", the big advantage is it makes almost disappear this weird RWS feeling.
Then on the road / higway, "Sport Plus" is definitely my favorite, I'd rather stick to that than "range" lol

I believe 19” wheels will fit on the 4S, but not the turbo due to brake sizes. Hopefully someone can clarify.

Yep that would be great, if 19" make a noticeable difference towards comfort without loosing too much precision I'd go for that.
And I think 20'' is possible for sure since you can spec a 4S with 20'' when buying new.
19" I was able to spec on the basic Taycan or Taycan 4, but not the 4S, so I suppose there's some incompatibility.

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