Taycan GTS vs Tesla Model S Plaid

[Vercingetorix]

I find it funny when some Joe shmo complains he has to "explain himself" when Elon Musk says "something stupid".
The guy responsible for the biggest revolution in electric cars, who built a company(from nothing) with bigger value then GM, Ford and Stellantis put together.
...but the nobody "expert" feels the need to explain.........
Btw, Taycan GTS, at about $40k-60k higher price, should be better put together and of higher quality materials then a car that runs circles around it in every measurable performance category.
Regardless, it still is a very overpriced, very average and overrated car.

Thanks Mark!

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[TDinDC]

I find it funny when some Joe shmo complains he has to "explain himself" when Elon Musk says "something stupid".
The guy responsible for the biggest revolution in electric cars, who built a company(from nothing) with bigger value then GM, Ford and Stellantis put together.
...but the nobody "expert" feels the need to explain.........
Btw, Taycan GTS, at about $40k-60k higher price, should be better put together and of higher quality materials then a car that runs circles around it in every measurable performance category.
Regardless, it still is a very overpriced, very average and overrated car.

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[f1eng]

The guy responsible for the biggest revolution in electric cars, who built a company(from nothing) with bigger value then GM, Ford and Stellantis put together.

He didn't start Tesla and the fact that the share price values it above the companies you mention just goes to prove how very twisted and broken the stock market system is. It is about gambling and fashion not business.

 

[Alemany]

As a previous two Tesla car owner and for the past three years owner of a Taycan Turbo S, I summarize the answer to this comparison as follows:

The Tesla is a crappy low quality very fast car with an awesome software. The Taycan is an awesome high quality car with a crappy software....

 

[Cincy2]

The Taycan is an awesome high quality car with a crappy software....

After reading the user manual and sitting in the car for a few hours working through it, I am pleased with the end state. I wish the software was more intuitive and all options were at most one level below the menu but that would be difficult to do without the 15 inch screen in the Tesla. Not much has been said about the brilliant colors and high resolution of the Taycan screen. I find it very satisfying to use. After about a week since trading my Model S, the only real gripe I have about the Taycan software is that when I make a driving mode, chassis height or regeneration selection, it doesn't remain when the car is turned off. You have to remember to make those same every time. Am I missing something?

Thx
Cincy

 

[f1eng]

when I make a driving mode, chassis height or regeneration selection, it doesn't remain when the car is turned off. You have to remember to make those same every time. Am I missing something?

I read it reverts to the setting at which the official efficiency test was done.

I actually have come to prefer the default for most journeys, I think Porsche chose well

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

I split the software into “car” software and “entertainment” software.

It seems we can agree that the car software is markedly superior in the Porsche.

I am a bit old school on the entertainment side, having seen driver tests showing using a hands free phone to be the least distraction of all the non-driving features of modern cars but similar to driving drunk I don’t use them much, so whether they are good or not isn’t a big deal for me.

I do have my ‘phone connected if I take it with me, in case anybody calls and mine works fine from the steering wheel control.

I have never had a PCM reset or reboot but did once in the last 18 months just have “Taycan” in the centre display but the car drove normally so i ignored it - nothing on there of great importance.

I haven’t bothered with Apple CarPlay, it does nothing I want.

So for me, any superiority a Tesla may have are in its aspects that of tiny interest for my use and the areas where Porsche’s software are way better than Teslasare those I consider important - so easy decision for me.

I wanted to get back on this older post. I think those of us who tend to favor the “classic” interpretation of a car also tend to classify its software in “system” (what you called “car software”) and “entertainment”.

Tesla, though, broke that convention (reasons don’t matter) and adopted software intensively for the “operational” aspect of the car. This is a long-winded way to say “no physical buttons”. That makes their software much more than mere “entertainment”, and indeed the essence of the car’s usability. For some that’s great, for others it’s a downside. Even for those who are fans, some decisions are questionable (just as an example, activating wipers or selecting the direction of travel).

So while I’m firmly in the camp of “Porsche software is perfectly fine”, I can see while the others (Tesla expats, or even those of other brands) gripe about the “quality of the software”: it’s about usability, and, to a lesser degree, the rate of updates.

 

[Alemany]

I wanted to get back on this older post. I think those of us who tend to favor the “classic” interpretation of a car also tend to classify its software in “system” (what you called “car software”) and “entertainment”.

Tesla, though, broke that convention (reasons don’t matter) and adopted software intensively for the “operational” aspect of the car. This is a long-winded way to say “no physical buttons”. That makes their software much more than mere “entertainment”, and indeed the essence of the car’s usability. For some that’s great, for others it’s a downside. Even for those who are fans, some decisions are questionable (just as an example, activating wipers or selecting the direction of travel).

So while I’m firmly in the camp of “Porsche software is perfectly fine”, I can see while the others (Tesla expats, or even those of other brands) gripe about the “quality of the software”: it’s about usability, and, to a lesser degree, the rate of updates.

Thats a good point, however, to me is simpler than that. Tesla software worked every time. in 6 years and two cars never had a single software issue. Hardware? Yes! The car is terrible as a mechanical car and so is the quality, very low. Software issues, none in 6 years.

The Taycan, on the other hand, has been in the shop for software issues a million times. In fact I kept a daily diary for a month to prove to Porsche that the software issues added on average 30 minutes to my daily routine just to use the car. Last July there was a massive update that solved 90% of the issues but I still get the occasional glitch. As a mechanical car? Amazingly good and I love it.

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

Thats a good point, however, to me is simpler than that. Tesla software worked every time. in 6 years and two cars never had a single software issue. Hardware? Yes! The car is terrible as a mechanical car and so is the quality, very low. Software issues, none in 6 years.

The Taycan, on the other hand, has been in the shop for software issues a million times. In fact I kept a daily diary for a month to prove to Porsche that the software issues added on average 30 minutes to my daily routine just to use the car. Last July there was a massive update that solved 90% of the issues but I still get the occasional glitch. As a mechanical car? Amazingly good and I love it.

I get the frustration, even though I don’t experience the problems often described here. In my job, I often have interactions with my “customers” (consumers of the platform I work on) that pretty much go the same way - “why did you design it this way, it’s stupid”. And always (in this case, too) it’s a matter of assumptions (what is being solved) and equivalences (that other software does it better/differently).

So when we say “Tesla does this better” - are we comparing a software control with its physical button equivalent (unlock), or, to f1eng’s point, Spotify integration? I’d say Porsche does usability as well as anyone, whether it’s physical buttons or soft interfaces. No comment on updates (and for entertainment it’s carplay for me).

 

[Daddyo]

I have a '23 GTS and a '18 MS 100D. There are some really good feature-by-feature comparisons in the comments. Qualitatively, this is how I compare the cars for friends who have not driver either. The analogy is a little dated and U.S.-centric, but seems to help a few quickly internalize the core difference.

They're really different kinds of "performance" cars. Both do what they do well, but the Tesla gives the impression that it was designed by someone who grew up watching the "Jetsons" cartoon. The Taycan designer spent more time watching "Speed Racer."

 

[Snirpo]

I also went from a Model S Plaid to a 2023 Taycan Turbo S Sport Turismo. Just got sick of the lackluster build quality, vibration issues and crap service. I always liked the Taycan but I think they are just too expensive. However with the severe depreciation right now (45% loss in 2 years, ouch), I went for it.

I think the Taycan is more of a drivers car. It just feels more engaging and fun to to drive. The Plaid was insanely fast in a straight line, but you needed to be exactly straight. Try the same thing when exiting a corner and it just held it's power until the car was completely straight. You couldn't drift or slide it like you can with the Taycan, at least not without Track Mode enabled. Track mode is not really usable on the street though. The Model 3 Performance I had before the Plaid felt way more fun to drive.

The Plaid is an electric muscle car basically. Cheap, lot's of horsepower, crap brakes, average handling.

I do miss the big screen, navigation, range and charging integration a bit. However, for me personally, those things don't weight up to the rest.

Surprisingly what I did not expect is Innodrive working so well. I'm not sure if it's because of European regulations, but Autopilot in the Plaid was just not great. On some roads it was constantly braking because of phantom speed limits. You cannot disable automatic adaptation to speed limits on Autopilot. Also, I take manual lane changing over automatic lane changing all day long. I just don't get why Tesla, like every other car manufacturer, just automatically re-enables lane assist again when you have moved to the other lane. I guess because they want you to buy EAP, which changes lanes for you.

 

[bosbruce]

Having owned a 22 Taycan 4S that I traded for Plaid S and considering purchasing a used GTS, have some addition comments here.

Agree with most that Tesla fit-and-finish isn't great, but I've never had any issues with my Model 3P (owned 3 years) or Plaid S (2 years) apart from some front suspension noises in the latter I keep meaning to take in to get looked at. My Taycan 4S I got lucky and had no issues apart from weird fog in the rear window that kept showing up at unexpected time but only owned for a year until they dropped the price of the Plaid S by $30k and gave it a round steering wheel... (and it is now like so many Taycans subject to the battery fire recall though I think Porsche is just being cautious it certainly is a big hassle for many current owners to deal with).

The Taycan 4S handled night and day better than Plaid in Chill/Sport/Plaid mode, but only a little better than Plaid S in track mode (and track mode has sooo much flexibility in choosing from 100% RWD to 100% FWD)... I just wish I could get some of the track mode features into a daily driving mode, but I can just drive it in track mode and tolerate the fan noise etc... when I feel the need to carve corners. In normal modes it feels like a ludicrously fast boat, boring but safe.

One reason I ditched the Porsche is because the drivetrain is such a compromise... If they had put a second motor in the rear instead of that annoying 2 speed transmission (there would be no need if they had more power or a motor like Plaid that can safely spin at higher RPM with something like the carbon fiber trick Tesla pulled) or if it was as quick as my outgoing Model 3P despite that transmission I would have kept it. If I forgot to switch to at least Sport Mode, it would start out in second gear and felt incredibly lethargic being such a heavy car.

Another thing I didn't like was the fact that the Porsche had a lot of features that weren't automated (like heated seats and steering wheel) or even usable (like balancing seat heat between top and bottom... a nice feature but buried so deep in menus and not stored for future trips that it was completely useless). Also while I really liked Electronic Sports Sound feature I got as an option, I hated that I had to dedicate one of my two programmable buttons to turn on Electronic Sports Sound. I typically had to press 4 buttons apart from start and gear shift before driving and that was super annoying especially for very short drives... I'm hoping a software update might have improved things there somewhat.

Other reasons I switched back to team Tesla : (1) charging network is vastly superior and more reliable, have had lots of electrify america chargers not work with my Porsche (and Mach E I had before the Porsche)... I think Porsche should soon work with Tesla Superchargers so that will not be as much of an issue but Tesla may charge more for non-Teslas? (2) range - I wanted the slightly better handling/braking of the less portly short range battery 4S so could only go up to 230 miles on long trips... (2)(a) to reduce range anxiety on long trips I sometimes drove in the eco mode that was front wheel drive and tried to cap speed unless you floor it... great if really needed that extra range but completely removed any sense of this being a sports car away, (3) space - trunk size on Taycan is tiny compared to Model S, rear seat legroom also far more constrained.

Despite all this, the handling, looks, electronic sports sound, and a few other features of the Taycan have me considering a used GTS since prices have dropped substantially. May keep the Plaid S or trade depending.

 

[Caraholic]

Having owned a 22 Taycan 4S that I traded for Plaid S and considering purchasing a used GTS, have some addition comments here.

Agree with most that Tesla fit-and-finish isn't great, but I've never had any issues with my Model 3P (owned 3 years) or Plaid S (2 years) apart from some front suspension noises in the latter I keep meaning to take in to get looked at. My Taycan 4S I got lucky and had no issues apart from weird fog in the rear window that kept showing up at unexpected time but only owned for a year until they dropped the price of the Plaid S by $30k and gave it a round steering wheel... (and it is now like so many Taycans subject to the battery fire recall though I think Porsche is just being cautious it certainly is a big hassle for many current owners to deal with).

The Taycan 4S handled night and day better than Plaid in Chill/Sport/Plaid mode, but only a little better than Plaid S in track mode (and track mode has sooo much flexibility in choosing from 100% RWD to 100% FWD)... I just wish I could get some of the track mode features into a daily driving mode, but I can just drive it in track mode and tolerate the fan noise etc... when I feel the need to carve corners. In normal modes it feels like a ludicrously fast boat, boring but safe.

One reason I ditched the Porsche is because the drivetrain is such a compromise... If they had put a second motor in the rear instead of that annoying 2 speed transmission (there would be no need if they had more power or a motor like Plaid that can safely spin at higher RPM with something like the carbon fiber trick Tesla pulled) or if it was as quick as my outgoing Model 3P despite that transmission I would have kept it. If I forgot to switch to at least Sport Mode, it would start out in second gear and felt incredibly lethargic being such a heavy car.

Another thing I didn't like was the fact that the Porsche had a lot of features that weren't automated (like heated seats and steering wheel) or even usable (like balancing seat heat between top and bottom... a nice feature but buried so deep in menus and not stored for future trips that it was completely useless). Also while I really liked Electronic Sports Sound feature I got as an option, I hated that I had to dedicate one of my two programmable buttons to turn on Electronic Sports Sound. I typically had to press 4 buttons apart from start and gear shift before driving and that was super annoying especially for very short drives... I'm hoping a software update might have improved things there somewhat.

Other reasons I switched back to team Tesla : (1) charging network is vastly superior and more reliable, have had lots of electrify america chargers not work with my Porsche (and Mach E I had before the Porsche)... I think Porsche should soon work with Tesla Superchargers so that will not be as much of an issue but Tesla may charge more for non-Teslas? (2) range - I wanted the slightly better handling/braking of the less portly short range battery 4S so could only go up to 230 miles on long trips... (2)(a) to reduce range anxiety on long trips I sometimes drove in the eco mode that was front wheel drive and tried to cap speed unless you floor it... great if really needed that extra range but completely removed any sense of this being a sports car away, (3) space - trunk size on Taycan is tiny compared to Model S, rear seat legroom also far more constrained.

Despite all this, the handling, looks, electronic sports sound, and a few other features of the Taycan have me considering a used GTS since prices have dropped substantially. May keep the Plaid S or trade depending.

how does the track mode plaid compare to the dynamics of the Taycan in sport? Does the steering feel any better then non track?

 

[Snirpo]

how does the track mode plaid compare to the dynamics of the Taycan in sport? Does the steering feel any better then non track?

Steering feel is not much different, it's more the suspension stiffening up and less traction control. + The ability to move the power more to the front or back. Without track mode enabled the Plaid is very safe. A bit too safe for my liking. Not much fun, except in a straight line.

 

[bosbruce]

how does the track mode plaid compare to the dynamics of the Taycan in sport? Does the steering feel any better then non track?

In normal (Chill/Sport/Plaid) modes it splits power fairly evenly, in Plaid mode it does so to maximize acceleration which results in understeer under throttle.
I usually drive track mode 80% RWD or more and traction control -5 (-10..+10 is range) or higher so, under throttle the steering feel is dramatically better (as it has active torque steer with 2 rear motors assisting in the task).

That said Plaid S definitely rates 10/10 for acceleration and throttle control in Plaid or most non-FWD biased (silly but can be fun/safe to scrub some rubber from the front tires for a change ) modes. In normal modes handling is between 5 and 6 depending upon suspension height and stiffness settings. In track modes I prefer (a little tail happy, cen step out when I want it to) I'd rate handling about 8 .

Taycan 4S acceleration and throttle control (and GTS is very close unless you tune it) I'd rate at about 6/10 in normal mode, 7/10 in sport or sport+ modes, 7.5/10 in launch mode (which you can only get from a stop until the 2025 models give you that boost button). For overall fun while driving on short trips for me the electronic sports sound improved my enjoyment beyond the mediocre-for-electric acceleration. I felt the Taycan 4S with small battery handling was close to a 9, the GTS I drove I could feel the increased rear weight a bit so probably an 8.8.. Of course various steering/vectoring options might shift that a bit - Porsche is, as expected, the clear winner across the board in handling (and braking) though handling is only by a bit more than 10% compared to track mode from my seat-of-the-pants judgement.

Though to me Taycan felt infinitely more communicative and direct in handling, it did do a bit more tramlining on highways with any (likely Boston winter induced) "ruts" , perhaps in part because even the 4S needed wider tires/wheels to accommodate the extra vehicle weight.

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