Taycan Charging at 350 kW v. 150 kW

[TDinDC]

So, I saw this article about the charging times for a Lucid Air (https://insideevs.com/news/567714/lucid-air-fast-charging-comparison/amp/), and it seems to show that it makes no real difference whether you are charging at 350 kW or 150 kW. Has anyone done a similar comparison with the Taycan?

It obviously makes a big difference with respect to whether it is "worth" it to go out of your way a few minutes to go to a 350 kW vs. 150 kW or 50 kW.

What are the relevant variables that cause a "material" difference in charing times? For me, I do not consider anything less than 10 minutes or so to be material.

Also, does the answer vary based on the particular options on your Taycan (e.g., performance battery, on-board charger)?

Thanks

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[W1NGE]

So, I saw this article about the charging times for a Lucid Air (https://insideevs.com/news/567714/lucid-air-fast-charging-comparison/amp/), and it seems to show that it makes no real difference whether you are charging at 350 kW or 150 kW. Has anyone done a similar comparison with the Taycan?

It obviously makes a big difference with respect to whether it is "worth" it to go out of your way a few minutes to go to a 350 kW vs. 150 kW or 50 kW.

What are the relevant variables that cause a "material" difference in charing times? For me, I do not consider anything less than 10 minutes or so to be material.

Also, does the answer vary based on the particular options on your Taycan (e.g., performance battery, on-board charger)?

Thanks

It's not that straight-forward!

The max charge from a 350kW EVSE is 270kW at peak (you cannot get any higher). This is only available for a relatively short time period (to protect the battery) and is dependent on a raft of variables most of which you cannot control such as: ambient air temperature, battery temperature, battery State of Charge (SOC), whether the power to the EVSE is throttled in some way (sharing for example) and so on.

The same holds true for the 150kW and 50kW EVSEs except that you will typically be able to pull 49kW all day long from a 50kW EVSE right up to 85% SOC and for a while beyond.

If the 150kW EVSE is 400v and you don't have the DC booster (400v - 800v) option then you will be restricted to 50kW max.

As this is DC charging specific then all cars are built the same (proviso being the option of the DC booster which comes into play in specific use cases) DC capability of 50kW 800v default and 270kW 800v default, battery - Performance or Performance Plus - independent.

Don't over think this and use the fastest EVSE available at the time.

 

[Ryun43]

Our charging is much better than that

Post software update and on my new MY23, I have held 240+ for over 70% and doesnt drop off that quickly

and on a 150 itll hold 174 all the way past 80%

The net result is maybe 5 minutes so not necessarily worth going out of the way to find one but definitely worth it to chose the 350 at EA

 

[xyeahtony]

The Lucid Air has a crap charging curve compared to the Taycan. Taycan can hold 200kw+ deep into the pack compared to the Lucid which tapers after 30-40%.

There is a noticeable difference charging at a 150kw station vs 350kw station (which maxes out at 270kw as that's the limit the Taycan can take). I don't know the exact difference but i've seen maybe 5 minutes difference.

 

[W1NGE]

The Lucid Air has a crap charging curve compared to the Taycan. Taycan can hold 200kw+ deep into the pack compared to the Lucid which tapers after 30-40%.

There is a noticeable difference charging at a 150kw station vs 350kw station (which maxes out at 270kw as that's the limit the Taycan can take). I don't know the exact difference but i've seen maybe 5 minutes difference.

Note that depending on the battery your Taycan has the max will not be 270kW - Performance Battery Plus only and standard Performance Battery is less ~ 225kW (or so).

 

[simcity]

What are the relevant variables that cause a "material" difference in charing times? For me, I do not consider anything less than 10 minutes or so to be material.

The two key factors are:
1. Ambient and battery temperatures. Very Low = slow (also very high = slow). Goldilocks is the key.
2. State of Charge. The fastest charge rates are at the beginning of the charge. See charge curve from Fastened for the Taycan..

 

[TYKHAAAN]

I’ve charged at 50kw before and that can take 45+ mins to get to 85% from 10% So that‘s not even comparable to the 270kw speed and time. The 270kw got me from 20% to 70% in 11 minutes. So it comes down to what your time is worth (and of course, if the charger works at the best speeds available). So I always seek out the 350kw, especially since the EA stations always have both 350kw and 150kw stations (again, if it is all working in proper order) and I get my free charging from them for another year anyway. After that, I will seek out best speed/cost/reliability in my charging options.

The difference from 150kw to 270kw isn’t all that bad, as the 270kw wont hold much after reaching 70% anyway. I have no issues taking a 150kw if that is all that is available and get to 85% probably in closer to 20-30 mins.

 

[Skilly]

And if you use Electrify America, you're kind of lucky to get any charge at all...let alone an available 350 charger that isn't being used by a Chevy Bolt.

 

[daveo4EV]

It's not that straight-forward!

The max charge from a 350kW EVSE is 270kW at peak (you cannot get any higher). This is only available for a relatively short time period (to protect the battery) and is dependent on a raft of variables most of which you cannot control such as: ambient air temperature, battery temperature, battery State of Charge (SOC), whether the power to the EVSE is throttled in some way (sharing for example) and so on.

The same holds true for the 150kW and 50kW EVSEs except that you will typically be able to pull 49kW all day long from a 50kW EVSE right up to 85% SOC and for a while beyond.

If the 150kW EVSE is 400v and you don't have the DC booster (400v - 800v) option then you will be restricted to 50kW max.

As this is DC charging specific then all cars are built the same (proviso being the option of the DC booster which comes into play in specific use cases) DC capability of 50kW 800v default and 270kW 800v default, battery - Performance or Performance Plus - independent.

Don't over think this and use the fastest EVSE available at the time.

net difference with Taycan for 270 kw vs 150 kw from 5% to 95% is optimally 6 min savings

so faster but not huge.

 

[TDinDC]

The two key factors are:
1. Ambient and battery temperatures. Very Low = slow (also very high = slow). Goldilocks is the key.
2. State of Charge. The fastest charge rates are at the beginning of the charge. See charge curve from Fastened for the Taycan..

correct, but for an apples to apples comparison (i.e., all of the variables are the same -- under same conditions), does it make a material difference in time for charging at 350 v. 150 (assuming performance battery plus DC booster)?

Is it that it makes little difference under cold conditions but material difference under warm/preheated conditions?

 

[TDinDC]

net difference with Taycan for 270 kw vs 150 kw from 5% to 95% is optimally 6 min savings

so faster but not huge.

Which is what I'm trying to determine because this suggests that you should pick charger closest to your route rather than taking a 10 minute detour for a 6 minute faster charging time . . .

 

[Skilly]

Which is what I'm trying to determine because this suggests that you should pick charger closest to your route rather than taking a 10 minute detour for a 6 minute faster charging time . . .

And assuming that its available vs the more plentiful access to 150.

 

[daveo4EV]

Which is what I'm trying to determine because this suggests that you should pick charger closest to your route rather than taking a 10 minute detour for a 6 minute faster charging time . . .

i’ll take a reliable 150kw over further away 350 kw - it’s hard to achieve the optimal savings - and 150 isn’t slow

 

[simcity]

net difference with Taycan for 270 kw vs 150 kw from 5% to 95% is optimally 6 min savings

so faster but not huge.

Be interesting to know what the delta was reaching 80%. The real slowness is in that last 15%

 

[TDinDC]

So, to provide context, I'm traveling to Philadelphia this weekend. I can either charge at a 150 kW charger that is somewhat en route at the edge of Philadelphia, or I can go to a 350 kW charger that is more to towards the East and away from University City, which is on the west of the river.

The apps say that both are available and working as designed (I can't control accuracy of reporting).

Just looking at the 350 v 150, your initial reaction is that might be worth heading to 350, but the more I think about it, the more I realize that I would probably lose more time than I would gain.

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