Taycan Charging at 350 kW v. 150 kW

[xyeahtony]

correct, but for an apples to apples comparison (i.e., all of the variables are the same -- under same conditions), does it make a material difference in time for charging at 350 v. 150 (assuming performance battery plus DC booster)?

Is it that it makes little difference under cold conditions but material difference under warm/preheated conditions?

"DC booster" plays no role here and is an inert paperweight. All electrify america charging stations are 800V+ capable and any 400V chargers in the wild (not counting tesla) are usually capped out at 50kw anyways.

The difference in time is between 5-10 minutes as pointed out above. Even on the regular/standard battery that tops out at ~220kw, since you have a smaller pack to charge the curve is still the same shape and roughly the same time to hit 5-80%.

That's why a lot of people don't mind turning on the battery "friendly" charge profile in the PCM that caps the max charge rate at 200kw. that just flattens the curve and adds maybe 5 minutes to your charge time, but may or may not increase battery life.

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[Skilly]

i’ll take a reliable 150kw over further away 350 kw - it’s hard to achieve the optimal savings - and 150 isn’t slow

not to mention 350kw doesn't always do even as well as that reliable 150kw - again, EA is a hot mess

 

[daveo4EV]

So, to provide context, I'm traveling to Philadelphia this weekend. I can either charge at a 150 kW charger that is somewhat en route at the edge of Philadelphia, or I can go to a 350 kW charger that is more to towards the East and away from University City, which is on the west of the river.

The apps say that both are available and working as designed (I can't control accuracy of reporting).

Just looking at the 350 v 150, your initial reaction is that might be worth heading to 350, but the more I think about it, the more I realize that I would probably lose more time than I would gain.

app is useless for checking functional

consult plugshare for recent check ins

 

[daveo4EV]

the issue with CCS fast charging isn't always the speed - I honestly do not care if it takes 18 min to reach 93% or 24 min to reach 93% - what busts my hump is when it takes me 42 min on hold with customer support to get the damn station to even begin the charging session - that my friends is our challenge!!!

if you're focusing on charging speed you are focusing on the WRONG variable - charger session activation and reliability is the _KEY_ metric - all other factors are really honestly noise…

150 kW vs. 350 kW is overblown marketing hype given the charging curves - I mentally budget 30 minutes for each stop - with is split between charging time servicing the vehicle and bio-breaks, walk, snack servicing the human's

if I'm casual and relaxed about my road trip stops and not rushing like a maniac and the session activation went smoothly (rare & uncommon) often times the car is ready before I am…

if I can reliably do a fast charging stop in 25-30 minutes - that's all I ask!!!

the key to this is accurate charging network status - and the best tool for that is Plugshare - the Porsche app and the EA app are "optimistic" (liars?) regarding their network status - Plugshare is as close to the truth you can get with out actually sampling the site for yourself - and even then Plugshare can be wrong - so it's a big of crap shoot…i keep hoping it will get better.

 

[Gubab]

it seems to make no difference whether charging to 97% SoC using “battery saving fast charging“ with 200 kW charging or charging at maximum speed. In the german forum this was discussed and people said that it is not realistic to charge to 97% SoC but one should rather charge from <10% to around 50% SoC to have best speed (and battery health?). I wonder what the actual time differende is when charging with maximal speed to 50% vs charging with reduced speed (battery safing fast charging).

 

[TDinDC]

"DC booster" plays no role here and is an inert paperweight. All electrify america charging stations are 800V+ capable and any 400V chargers in the wild (not counting tesla) are usually capped out at 50kw anyways.

The difference in time is between 5-10 minutes as pointed out above. Even on the regular/standard battery that tops out at ~220kw, since you have a smaller pack to charge the curve is still the same shape and roughly the same time to hit 5-80%.

That's why a lot of people don't mind turning on the battery "friendly" charge profile in the PCM that caps the max charge rate at 200kw. that just flattens the curve and adds maybe 5 minutes to your charge time, but may or may not increase battery life.

To be clear, I'm not talking about EA. I don't care about "free" charging. My time is worth more than going out of my way just to make it to EA.

 

[xyeahtony]

To be clear, I'm not talking about EA. I don't care about "free" charging. My time is worth more than going out of my way just to make it to EA.

I wasn't even talking about EA specifically, they just happen to have the largest CCS network in the United States. And even then at a non-EA charger, 99% of CCS chargers that output above 50kw are already 800V, rendering the onboard 150kw/400V dc-dc booster pointless. That option will only ever become useful if Tesla opens their network to CCS cars in the USA.

So in relation to your discussion/question, the Taycan still has one of the quickest fast charge curves of any EV on the market, meaning that it can recoup the vast majority of its pack in the shortest amount of time. If you use a 350kw charger, it'll be super fast, and if you use a 150kw charger, it'll still be fast, but about 5-10 minutes slower.

Although i hear the Ioniq 6 is advertising 80% in 18 minutes, so hey. It still takes my Tesla a good 35-40 minutes to get 80% from 5%.

 

[slothinker]

Around here (Central California) EA has changed maximums of a number of its pumps from 350kWh to 150kWh. At this point I'd say if this results in more reliability for this troubled network, it would be a good move.

 

[TDinDC]

the issue with CCS fast charging isn't always the speed - I honestly do not care if it takes 18 min to reach 93% or 24 min to reach 93% - what busts my hump is when it takes me 42 min on hold with customer support to get the damn station to even begin the charging session - that my friends is our challenge!!!

if you're focusing on charging speed you are focusing on the WRONG variable - charger session activation and reliability is the _KEY_ metric - all other factors are really honestly noise…

150 kW vs. 350 kW is overblown marketing hype given the charging curves - I mentally budget 30 minutes for each stop - with is split between charging time servicing the vehicle and bio-breaks, walk, snack servicing the human's

if I'm casual and relaxed about my road trip stops and not rushing like a maniac and the session activation went smoothly (rare & uncommon) often times the car is ready before I am…

if I can reliably do a fast charging stop in 25-30 minutes - that's all I ask!!!

the key to this is accurate charging network status - and the best tool for that is Plugshare - the Porsche app and the EA app are "optimistic" (liars?) regarding their network status - Plugshare is as close to the truth you can get with out actually sampling the site for yourself - and even then Plugshare can be wrong - so it's a big of crap shoot…i keep hoping it will get better.

To be clear, I'm not "sweating" anything. I'm not worked up. I'm not even wasting a lot of mental effort here (obviously).

I'm just asking questions because I was sincerely surprised that it seems to make such little difference in charging speed.

I know you have had bad luck with charging stations. On the east coast, I have never been to a charging station where I could not find at least one functioning charger, so, for my circumstances, I do think I am focusing on exactly the right issue, which is why I asked the question.

 

[TDinDC]

it seems to make no difference whether charging to 97% SoC using “battery saving fast charging“ with 200 kW charging or charging at maximum speed. In the german forum this was discussed and people said that it is not realistic to charge to 97% SoC but one should rather charge from <10% to around 50% SoC to have best speed (and battery health?). I wonder what the actual time differende is when charging with maximal speed to 50% vs charging with reduced speed (battery safing fast charging).

This is another good question.

When I am on roadtrips, I sometimes have stretches where it makes sense to charge above 80%, because the slower charging rate still takes less time than making a stop. I have always assumed that, when you get to that point, it probably makes no difference as a practical matter whether you are at 350, 150 or 50, because the car will limit rate to the same degree anyway . . .

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

To be clear, I'm not "sweating" anything. I'm not worked up. I'm not even wasting a lot of mental effort here (obviously).

I'm just asking questions because I was sincerely surprised that it seems to make such little difference in charging speed.

^This. IME the difference in charging speed is an academic one in the context of a long(er) road trip. Optimize for avoiding hassles (ie detours, or waiting, rerouting etc.)

 

[simcity]

150 kW vs. 350 kW is overblown marketing hype given the charging curves - I mentally budget 30 minutes for each stop - with is split between charging time servicing the vehicle and bio-breaks, walk, snack servicing the human's

Did you notice much of a real world difference between V2 and v3 SuCs in your Tesla?

 

[simcity]

In the german forum this was discussed and people said that it is not realistic to charge to 97% SoC but one should rather charge from <10% to around 50% SoC

Adding 75 or 80% from a low baseline is going to give the best sweet-spot between optimal charge speed and resulting range.

Charging to 97% if you want speed / getaway makes no sense, as the last 15% at the top of the battery is the absolute slowest.

Conversely charging to just 50% gives negligible additional range. I’m not sure you’d realistically see any longevity benefit either.

 

[TDinDC]

Did you notice much of a real world difference between V2 and v3 SuCs in your Tesla?

For further context, I agree that for longer roadtrips along interstates, there are rarely any practical choices to be made.

I happen to make a number of trips between urban areas where I must charge upon arrival but do not need to charge in transit.

Where there is a charger at my hotel, then, of course, you just use that for the overnight.

Frequently, there is not. Which means that you have to go charge upon arrival or before departure.

There are usually many chargers from which to choose. That's exactly the situation in which I find myself right now, which is why I googled charge time differences by kW and found the article that showed how little difference there really was between 350 and 150 for Lucid. What I didn't know was whether that same difference also applied to Taycans. I appreciate the responses.

 

[W1NGE]

In conclusion stop analysing and choose a suitable EVSE and simply get on with it!

You can't predict the future and so the 'optimal' EVSE may not be available and so this debate becomes nothing more than an interesting intellectual discussion.

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