Are used high milage Taycans worth looking at?

[pauls999]

The price of a 2020 4S in the UK is now hovering around the £70K mark, but at these prices, the mileage is usually high for a 2-year-old car at between 45K-55K miles.
Whilst the mechanics of the Taycan may not be an issue, the HV battery is something that bugs me. I know that it's only halfway to the warranty limit of 100,000k miles but how much has a Taycan battery degraded at these levels of usage after 2 years assuming normal charging at home and moderate use of high-speed chargers.
The standard 4 year/50,000 mile warranty will also be up even though its old two years old.
Although there are 100k+ Taycans out there seems to be little data on how the batteries are holding up if there are used as high-mileage runners.
Tesla has data on their model S and X showing about 90-95 SOH compared to a new battery at 50K but they are different cell topologies and cooling methods to the Taycan so I'm not so sure that data translates that well to the Taycan.
Aside from the HV battery what else is showing up as a common issue as the miles rack up?

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[npx]

This isn't scientific, but if you go look at the issues that more recent Panameras (post refresh) have, you might start to get some inkling of other issues. Panamera is J1 platform, Taycan is J1A, an evolution. I don't know those issues to give you but it might be a start

 

[tutis]

The price of a 2020 4S in the UK is now hovering around the £70K mark, but at these prices, the mileage is usually high for a 2-year-old car at between 45K-55K miles.
Whilst the mechanics of the Taycan may not be an issue, the HV battery is something that bugs me. I know that it's only halfway to the warranty limit of 100,000k miles but how much has a Taycan battery degraded at these levels of usage after 2 years assuming normal charging at home and moderate use of high-speed chargers.
The standard 4 year/50,000 mile warranty will also be up even though its old two years old.
Although there are 100k+ Taycans out there seems to be little data on how the batteries are holding up if there are used as high-mileage runners.
Tesla has data on their model S and X showing about 90-95 SOH compared to a new battery at 50K but they are different cell topologies and cooling methods to the Taycan so I'm not so sure that data translates that well to the Taycan.
Aside from the HV battery what else is showing up as a common issue as the miles rack up?

Battery degradation should be in the 5-10% region for that mileage. The only way to be sure is to test drive the car and bring an OBD dongle which, with the owner’s permission, you plug in momentarily to read from the car. If the car is sold by a dealer, then you can ask for a Porsche reading

All batteries degrade. The good news is that 80% of degradation happens in the first 50k miles or so. So not much more degradation to be expected after that. If you buy a newer car, a similar degradation will occur almost no matter what, unless you have extreme behaviour such as only DC charging at a high rate, launching the car at every stoplight, and living in very high temperatures. ; in which case degradation will be more severe.

don’t stress about it. The battery is solid and the warranty is for 8 years. And there will always be the option to extend the warranty with Porsche.

 

[xyeahtony]

i wouldn't worry about the battery. My dad drives a 5 year old tesla with over 150k+ miles and still has 90% of the original capacity (according to the BMS).

I dont like buying used cars only because of comestic issues. In an EV, there are few wearable items you dont have to worry if the guy changed the oil or not or used the right gas/petrol, etc.

 

[DCYL725]

Battery degradation should be in the 5-10% region for that mileage. The only way to be sure is to test drive the car and bring an OBD dongle which, with the owner’s permission, you plug in momentarily to read from the car. If the car is sold by a dealer, then you can ask for a Porsche reading

All batteries degrade. The good news is that 80% of degradation happens in the first 50k miles or so. So not much more degradation to be expected after that. If you buy a newer car, a similar degradation will occur almost no matter what, unless you have extreme behaviour such as only DC charging at a high rate, launching the car at every stoplight, and living in very high temperatures. ; in which case degradation will be more severe.

don’t stress about it. The battery is solid and the warranty is for 8 years. And there will always be the option to extend the warranty with Porsche.

Assuming Battery-friendly charging is always on and charging from 20 - 85% every time., how frequently is frequent for DC charging to have an impact on battery health?

I've read all the online articles and the INL studies.

Always piqued my interest when this claim is made and whether anyone has new real-world data to support the view.

 

[tutis]

how frequent is frequent for DC charging to have an impact on battery health?

I've read all the online articles and the INL studies.

Someone had compiled some data on this for Taycans, maybe in this forum although cannot find it right now, showing degradation versus mileage and by car model. It showed that Turbo and Turbo S had the worse degradation; they had nearly 50% more degradation than other Taycans

Not sure if the motor power draw was causal to the degradation, or it could be different chemistry to accommodate the high power, or because Turbo owners repeatedly launched it, but it was visible and significantly different for those cars.

As for DC frequency, there was no Taycan-specific study, however, all other studies (mostly based on Teslas) were showing that if DC charging amounted to more than ~50% of total battery charging intake then it had a marginal effect on degradation. I would wager that ≥50% DC charging probably means that you DC fast charge at least once per week for a car that covers 25k miles per year (e.g. 500 miles per week, 1 DC fast charge to cover half of that).

However, DC charging with the Taycan could mean anywhere between 50kW and 270kW. I don't think the car records which is used. Also, if the owner used the "battery health" (or whatever it is called, that limits DC charging rate to 200kW) that could also have helped mitigate degradation.

The only way to be sure is to read the degradation figure from the car directly

 

[DCYL725]

As for DC frequency, there was no Taycan-specific study, however, all other studies (mostly based on Teslas) were showing that if DC charging amounted to more than ~50% of total battery charging intake then it had a marginal effect on degradation. I would wager that ≥50% DC charging probably means that you DC fast charge at least once per week for a car that covers 25k miles per year (e.g. 500 miles per week, 1 DC fast charge to cover half of that).

However, DC charging with the Taycan could mean anywhere between 50kW and 270kW. I don't think the car records which is used. Also, if the owner used the "battery health" (or whatever it is called, that limits DC charging rate to 200kW) that could also have helped mitigate degradation.

The only way to be sure is to read the degradation figure from the car directly

Would be interesting to see the degradation of my own battery.
DC only, 50-75kW stations from 20% to 80% mostly at Porsche chargers on standard performance battery and battery friendly charging, though only averaging 5k miles a year (car is one year old).

Live in a city with many DC chargers.

 

[Fish Fingers]

Interesting thread....

I am also wondering if the large buffer the Taycan battery uses will help?

 

[tutis]

Would be interesting to see the degradation of my own battery.
DC only, 50-75kW stations from 20% to 80% mostly at Porsche chargers on standard performance battery and battery friendly charging, though only averaging 5k miles a year (car is one year old).

Live in a city with many DC chargers.

I don't think your battery got more than lukewarm with 75kW peak charging. I'd be surprised if you're anywhere close to 5% degradation

 

[DCYL725]

I don't think your battery got more than lukewarm with 75kW peak charging. I'd be surprised if you're anywhere close to 5% degradation

avg temp's are 30C around the year during a charging session.

Summer time when its 35C+, highest the battery ever get is 40C.

 

[DCYL725]

Interesting thread....

I am also wondering if the large buffer the Taycan battery uses will help?

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/08/26/the-secret-life-of-an-ev-battery/

The net usable battery can be gamed to juice out more range when the time comes.

Lose battery capacity but can increase** the net-usable battery by 5% 5-years down the line I reckon.

 

[BigBob]

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/08/26/the-secret-life-of-an-ev-battery/

The net usable battery can be gamed to juice out more range when the time comes.

Lose battery capacity but can increase** the net-usable battery by 5% 5-years down the line I reckon.

Yes, i was wondering if battery degradation is applied to the whole battery i.e. impacting the 'usable portion of the battery' or if the buffer is eaten in to first in order to maintain the level of usable soh.

Would be good if it is the latter, otherwise i'm not sure what benefit having a 10 kwh battery buffer is.

 

[pauls999]

Someone had compiled some data on this for Taycans, maybe in this forum although cannot find it right now, showing degradation versus mileage and by car model. It showed that Turbo and Turbo S had the worse degradation; they had nearly 50% more degradation than other Taycans

Not sure if the motor power draw was causal to the degradation, or it could be different chemistry to accommodate the high power, or because Turbo owners repeatedly launched it, but it was visible and significantly different for those cars.

That would make sense as the same battery, assuming the 93kWh one, is used across the range. The potential power draw is nearly double for the Turbo & Turbo S than for the RWD with the 4S & GTS about in the middle, and the temptation to use that in the turbo's more often will be greater, or else what is the point in getting one in the first place.

When checking the trade-in price on Webuyanycar, the price difference for same the 2020 4S car with 20K and 50K miles was less than £2k. On Autotrader, the same 30K mileage difference equates to about £5K to £8K retail, but the variation in options is almost impossible to match up exactly.

The takeaway I get is that high-mileage cars aren't that much of a bargain as the price is high pro-rata to the amount of warranty that will be left and could be used up well before the 8 year limit and issues of selling the car in a say 3 years time when battery degradation will be worse and prospective customers will be more switched on about the effect on range issues etc and electric car usage will be more commonplace and the effects of mileage and usage on batteries and drive trains in performance cars will be more well defined.

 

[W1NGE]

The price of a 2020 4S in the UK is now hovering around the £70K mark, but at these prices, the mileage is usually high for a 2-year-old car at between 45K-55K miles.
Whilst the mechanics of the Taycan may not be an issue, the HV battery is something that bugs me. I know that it's only halfway to the warranty limit of 100,000k miles but how much has a Taycan battery degraded at these levels of usage after 2 years assuming normal charging at home and moderate use of high-speed chargers.
The standard 4 year/50,000 mile warranty will also be up even though its old two years old.
Although there are 100k+ Taycans out there seems to be little data on how the batteries are holding up if there are used as high-mileage runners.
Tesla has data on their model S and X showing about 90-95 SOH compared to a new battery at 50K but they are different cell topologies and cooling methods to the Taycan so I'm not so sure that data translates that well to the Taycan.
Aside from the HV battery what else is showing up as a common issue as the miles rack up?

Battery is the least of your worries IMHO.

HV Heater, tyres, alignment (expensive), brake pads and not much else. Porsche build solid cars which last (normally).

Warranty can / will be extended - check what the dealer is offering and suggest only buying from a Porsche shop.

 

[Andy0565]

Yes, i was wondering if battery degradation is applied to the whole battery i.e. impacting the 'usable portion of the battery' or if the buffer is eaten in to first in order to maintain the level of usable soh.

Would be good if it is the latter, otherwise i'm not sure what benefit having a 10 kwh battery buffer is.

The buffers are there to protect the battery from significant damage at the high and low points.

I don’t see what difference the degradation of the battery makes to this. If you have a brand new battery, you need the buffers to protect it and if it’s degraded, you need the buffers to prevent the degradation getting worse. If you erased the buffers, you would get an immediate improvement in performance followed by a rapid degradation to where you were before and no doubt well beyond.

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