Welcome to Normal Depreciation

[f1eng]

how comes?
I mean, what happened with your CT?

The only reason I looked was all the comments in this thread, not a problem with my car.
2 years ago I couldn't find a used car with the spec I was prepared to pay the asking pricefor.
I was just intrigued to know if today, if I was in my situation back then, I could find a car I would be prepared to pay the asking price for, given its spec.
I didn't find one nowadays, either. Much less expensive but never the combination of options I want.

My CT is just what I wanted and sort of irreplacable, as it turns out.

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[B61]

Understood & agreed.

 

[Jonathan S.]

Interesting situation and discussion here:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/taycanporsche
... then add:
posts/1330938540830640/
... to the url.
[Forum software here is removing the url entirely when I try to post the full link.]

For those not into FB, link to BaT:
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2022-porsche-taycan-turbo-s-3/

• MY23 TS CT
• Mamba green
• heavily optioned, both practical & cosmetic
• ~2k mi
• pd $227 at beginning of yr
• BaT reached $171k but didn't hit reserve
• trying to sell on FB for $185k

 

[Jonathan S.]

Some add'l CT data points of interest from BaT:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2022-porsche-taycan-4-cross-turismo-8/

• MY22 4CT
• ~$123k sticker
• ~7k mi
• Neutral exterior color, but red interior is probably a deal breaker for many potential buyers (self most definitely included)
• ~$28k in options, but no HUD and no 150 (although still a theoretical disadvantage)
• reserve not met at $88.7k

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2022-porsche-taycan-turbo-cross-turismo/

• MY22 Turbo 4CT
• $187.8k sticker
• ~11k mi
• Once again, neutral exterior color, red interior
• 18-way seats instead of the more popular 14-way
• tires already needed were in imminent need of replacing back in Dec
• ~$32k in options
• reserve not met at $152k

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2022-porsche-taycan-4-cross-turismo-7/

• MY22 4CT
• $111k sticker
• 396 (!) miles (purchased Jan 22, sold Apr 23)
• neutral colors, both exterior & interior
• minimal options (by Porsche standards), but includes the most practical elements except for lack of heated steering wheel (but seller was in CA)
• sold for $93k

 

[Archimedes]

You lose 15% at drive off. Plus if you over option a car, you lose even more. Tarting up a car with lots of aesthetic options is a good way to throw away money.

People just need to be realistic about the drive off loss and the option recovery rate. None of the three situations above surprise me at all. Normal for high dollar sedans, excluding the pandemic nonsense period. The guy with the $187k Turbo 4CT expecting over $150k is delusional.

I‘m considering parting with my 4S, so I may have some real world data shortly.

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

I‘m considering parting with my 4S, so I may have some real world data shortly.

Are you getting bored with its lack of issues?

What’s replacing it? (If I’m not being nosey)

 

[Archimedes]

Are you getting bored with its lack of issues?

What’s replacing it? (If I’m not being nosey)

No, not at all. I have a GTI that I use as my around town car and find that it’s just a lot more practical for my use in a small seaside town. If I sell the Taycan, nothing will replace it. Still pondering.

 

[Murph7355]

You lose 15% at drive off. Plus if you over option a car, you lose even more. Tarting up a car with lots of aesthetic options is a good way to throw away money.

People just need to be realistic about the drive off loss and the option recovery rate. None of the three situations above surprise me at all. Normal for high dollar sedans, excluding the pandemic nonsense period. The guy with the $187k Turbo 4CT expecting over $150k is delusional.

I‘m considering parting with my 4S, so I may have some real world data shortly.

I think the point on options is fair enough....for any other brand.

But when you consider the base price of Taycans, and the lack of standard features (in the name of flexibility for the end customer....), I'm not sure it fully applies to Porsche.

 

[whitex]

Interesting situation and discussion here:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/taycanporsche
... then add:
posts/1330938540830640/
... to the url.
[Forum software here is removing the url entirely when I try to post the full link.]

For those not into FB, link to BaT:
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2022-porsche-taycan-turbo-s-3/

• MY23 TS CT
• Mamba green
• heavily optioned, both practical & cosmetic
• ~2k mi
• pd $227 at beginning of yr
• BaT reached $171k but didn't hit reserve
• trying to sell on FB for $185k

Some add'l CT data points of interest from BaT:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2022-porsche-taycan-4-cross-turismo-8/

• MY22 4CT
• ~$123k sticker
• ~7k mi
• Neutral exterior color, but red interior is probably a deal breaker for many potential buyers (self most definitely included)
• ~$28k in options, but no HUD and no 150 (although still a theoretical disadvantage)
• reserve not met at $88.7k

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2022-porsche-taycan-turbo-cross-turismo/

• MY22 Turbo 4CT
• $187.8k sticker
• ~11k mi
• Once again, neutral exterior color, red interior
• 18-way seats instead of the more popular 14-way
• tires already needed were in imminent need of replacing back in Dec
• ~$32k in options
• reserve not met at $152k

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2022-porsche-taycan-4-cross-turismo-7/

• MY22 4CT
• $111k sticker
• 396 (!) miles (purchased Jan 22, sold Apr 23)
• neutral colors, both exterior & interior
• minimal options (by Porsche standards), but includes the most practical elements except for lack of heated steering wheel (but seller was in CA)
• sold for $93k

The auction results, even if not meeting reserve, are actually indicative of market value. I realize some people cannot sell for less because they are underwater on the loan, while others value their own possessions above market value (especially if they paid ADMs), but the hard truth is that an item is only worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it. There is no such thing as absolute money value. Heck, even money doesn't have an absolute value (hence you can trade currencies).

4CT lost the least in depreciation as expected - dealer could probably have sold it for ~$95k. It makes sense, since $111k means 100K or less dealer cost, but fixed options, so need to find the buyer who wants those options an is willing to pay for them, or discount for options the buyer doesn't care for. That, and with current interest rates, it costs the dealer ~1% (so close to $1K in this case) a month in interest to keep the car on the lot. I bet the dealer offered ~$85K in trade, so $93K minus fees was still worth it for the seller.

Not at all surprised at the high end Turbo S losing the most. People who pay that kind of money usually want exactly the options they want. This means a used Turbo S value is mostly based on the base price, options are not worth much. I remember when I was in the market for a Turbo CT, I remember thinking to myself that I don't care to pay for options I don't want, and any options I do want which are missing need to translate into sufficient discount if I'm going to buy one. To be fair, it was 2021 and my trade-in was worth 66% more than earlier this year, so I would have been willing to pay some premium to cash-in on it and to get my Taycan earlier. Today that is no the case - allocations are way easier to get than in 2021.

A custom built medium optioned 4CT probably loses 15% when it drives off the lot. A heavily optioned TS CT loses 20% (of a lot higher price too). This 23 TS CT is probably worth about $175k at the dealer, which means the dealer will offer about $155K for it (remember, it would cost the dealer almost $2K a month in interest to keep the car on the lot).

PS> Full disclosure, I picked up a custom order Turbo CT in February. I am not kidding myself about its resale value - it probably dropped 20% off MSRP since I got it. But I am not selling it right now, so I truly don't care. I am glad I got the exact spec I wanted and that I negotiated under MSRP though (barely, but still not easy at that time). I plan to keep it for a while. I wouldn't sell you my Taycan if you offered me full MSRP today.

 

[whitex]

I think the point on options is fair enough....for any other brand.

But when you consider the base price of Taycans, and the lack of standard features (in the name of flexibility for the end customer....), I'm not sure it fully applies to Porsche.

Sadly, except for few options such as PB+, most options are a complete write off. Even for lease residual values, all options are basically considered fully depreciated in 4 years, meaning after 4 years, your options only help you sell the car faster, but are not worth any real money, which also means $0 value on trade-in. Please don't base your opinion on value from opinions of the members of this forum - they are not at all representative of your used car target market. When you sell you Taycan, it is more than likely the next owner will have never hear of this forum, not care to hear about it. I have owned various cars, some of which had dedicated fan forums/clubs. I think only one of those cars ever went to someone who participated in the fan forums, the rest of them just went to people who couldn't care less about the forums, or most options really. I'll give you an example, when selling a Tesla Model S recently, most buyers couldn't care less about $10K Ludicrous Mode (0-60 sub 3s) option, or a $15K radar and laser defense countermeasures, or a $1,200 winter package, or tint, or much else really. They cared about the options a little, as far as which car they'd buy, but not willing to pay a lot of money for them - in the end they compared all cars of the same trim as far as prices are concerned.

 

[Murph7355]

Sadly, except for few options such as PB+, most options are a complete write off. Even for lease residual values, all options are basically considered fully depreciated in 4 years, meaning after 4 years, your options only help you sell the car faster, but are not worth any real money, which also means $0 value on trade-in. Please don't base your opinion on value from opinions of the members of this forum - they are not at all representative of your used car target market. When you sell you Taycan, it is more than likely the next owner will have never hear of this forum, not care to hear about it. I have owned various cars, some of which had dedicated fan forums/clubs. I think only one of those cars ever went to someone who participated in the fan forums, the rest of them just went to people who couldn't care less about the forums, or most options really. I'll give you an example, when selling a Tesla Model S recently, most buyers couldn't care less about $10K Ludicrous Mode (0-60 sub 3s) option, or a $15K radar and laser defense countermeasures, or a $1,200 winter package, or tint, or much else really. They cared about the options a little, as far as which car they'd buy, but not willing to pay a lot of money for them - in the end they compared all cars of the same trim as far as prices are concerned.

I'm generally with you...but I won't be buying a new one now after the rigmarole of the last 18mths.

Am a used buyer, at the right price. But there are things I want on the car that will mean me not even entertaining options if they don't have them.

Examples - PB+ and PTV (if the model on offer doesn't have them already), rear wheel steering, panoramic roof and 4+1 seating are the main ones.

Equally there are things I won't give a stuff about - HUD, Innodrive and passenger display being the key ones. But I also want a car with more than the partial leather interior too.

Will be keeping an eye on the market. And will be interesting to see how things develop.

 

[whitex]

I'm generally with you...but I won't be buying a new one now after the rigmarole of the last 18mths.

Am a used buyer, at the right price. But there are things I want on the car that will mean me not even entertaining options if they don't have them.

Examples - PB+ and PTV (if the model on offer doesn't have them already), rear wheel steering, panoramic roof and 4+1 seating are the main ones.

Equally there are things I won't give a stuff about - HUD, Innodrive and passenger display being the key ones. But I also want a car with more than the partial leather interior too.

Will be keeping an eye on the market. And will be interesting to see how things develop.

Used car are generally always cheaper. This was briefly disrupted during the pandemic shortages, but coming back to normal fast. If you can find a used car with options you want and no options you don't want, it will definitely be cheaper than new.

 

[Archimedes]

I think the point on options is fair enough....for any other brand.

But when you consider the base price of Taycans, and the lack of standard features (in the name of flexibility for the end customer....), I'm not sure it fully applies to Porsche.

You tend to not get your money back on things like leather wrapped fuse box covers, paint to match air vents, and leather wrapped seat backs, etc. The more aesthetic options, the bigger the discount.

 

[Jonathan S.]

The auction results, even if not meeting reserve, are actually indicative of market value. I realize some people cannot sell for less because they are underwater on the loan, while others value their own possessions above market value (especially if they paid ADMs), but the hard truth is that an item is only worth as much as someone is willing to pay for it. There is no such thing as absolute money value. Heck, even money doesn't have an absolute value (hence you can trade currencies). [...]

Agreed. Which is exactly why I love analyzing these BaT listings.

By contrast, eBay completed listings for the CT seem to comprise only unrealistically high listing prices with joke low-ball bids.
Plus many listings don't even bother including the window sticker or build sheet.

Were it not for the unusual markets over the last couple years, would be interesting to take the BaT non-CT Taycan data and conduct a rigorous econometric analysis of which options contribute to resale value. Maybe in a couple years we'll have sufficient data from a more steady-state market for that. (Looking at the 2022 BaT auctions though is a fun alternative universe!)

 

[Murph7355]

You tend to not get your money back on things like leather wrapped fuse box covers, paint to match air vents, and leather wrapped seat backs, etc. The more aesthetic options, the bigger the discount.

Indeed.

But on the other hand you have the ability to carry 5 people, heating the backsides of four of them, electric folding wing mirrors, adaptive cruise, blind spot assistance......not on £100k cars.

Etc

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