Hybrid Alternative to all electric

[violuma]

I am @f1eng's doppelganger from the future and across the globe.

My spouse was looking to replace her 15-year-old Honda Accord, and when we looked at all the options last year, the Prius seemed to be the best fit. She put her name on a waiting list, and the dealer said they didn't really have any idea when they would get stock, because apparently Toyota really underestimated demand. No news for months, and then a couple of weeks ago "oh, can you come pick it up tomorrow?", so now we have a PHEV Prius Prime to keep the Taycan company.

I miscalculated in assuming Toyota was going to provide a 240V EVSE, so I'm actually going to try to get Porsche to pay for a second ClipperCreek for her as they never gave me one either, due to the whole cord-melting recall thing. They are currently on sale for half off, which was also cool.

It's still too early to get a read on how far she can go without sipping the petrol, but seems to be somewhere in the 40-50 mile neighborhood, which is decent.

I do tend to agree, however, with the people who describe hybrids as a transitional waystation in the grand scheme of things. It seems generally rather challenging to try to do two things in one car well. The economist in me hears David Ricardo moaning about comparative advantage and guns and butter and whatnot.

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[Redhot2474]

Absolutely spot on and share the sentiment - my wife had the first year RR sport with a 30-50 mile range, 4 cylinder - a hybrid engine is just as cost off effective and easier to manage long trips etc - the hybrids are the absolute sweet spot , most people just don’t want electric

 

[mc9er]

In process of getting pricing on Panamera 4s and Turbo vs new Taycan 4s and Turbo. Seeing what difference in residuals plays (or doesn’t play) into things

 

[Fish Fingers]

In our case a PHEV second car is ideal.

My wife does local journeys most days, but about once a month needs to do long business journeys on tight schedules for 2-3 days.

For reasons that are nobody else's business (and that's the point here) we do not want her stopping at isolated charging stations alone at night.

The PHEV will do the whole journey without refilling/charging, but 90% of the time it's running on battery.

 

[whitex]

This forum makes me sad. Our polluted planet is desperate for us to take steps to reduce climate change and stop burning fossil fuels. We are driving one of the most sophisticated, highest performance consumer EVs — which has zero tailpipe emissions (and almost no in-life emissions for those of us whose countries have stopped burning coal).

Yet almost noone in this forum seems to care about the environment. People keep obsessing about range, or depreciation, and want to go back to hybrids (a poor compromise, adding weight and complexity just to give the driver an emotional prop) or retain a gas-guzzler for road trips. Why not instead focus on why zero emission vehicles are the right thing for the planet?

My view: I have left those stinking, costly, cumbersome ICE vehicles behind and will never go back. The Taycan is an exciting, highly drivable vehicle which in most countries now has sufficient infrastructure for major road trips (stopping every couple of hours for a quick recharge and a short break to keep the driver safe). It fills silently overnight at home too, for many of us doing so with green electricity. And I will never again be sitting at traffic lights chugging out fumes.

i made this choice because it is the right thing to do. And because the Taycan is so brilliantly engineered, I can contribute to saving the planet and at the same time have a BETTER car.

Why do you have a car at all, rather than use a human powered bicycle and walking for all your transportation needs? The answer is the same for those who decide to buy a hybrid or a diesel car over an EV. And that answer is, "because it's not practical". Different cars are best for different things. I've switched to driving exclusively EV's over a decade ago now, and I have travelled with them (few trips across the USA/Canada) but I would still not recommend EVs for anyone who doesn't have home or at least work charging. I would also not recommend them for anyone who does >200 miles a day for their job and would have to rely on public DC charging at the state it is today. Anyone who wants to drive to the middle of Canadian Northwest territory, I say a diesel with a very large tank is the best car. Hybrids have been growing in popularity because EV at this point in time are not practical for everyone, but hybrids offer a good compromise.

So for you, for me, and a bunch of others, EV's work well. But they don't work well for everyone. Just like walking and biking works for some people, but doesn't work for you (or me). In the end Elon said it best - paraphrasing what he said: "very few people buy an EV because it's environmentally friendly. People will buy EV's if they are desirable as cars.", hence he created desirable car which happened to be EVs. Heck, even you didn't buy the most eco friendly EV, since a Model 3 would use less electricity per mile driven, therefore it would move you and your cargo the same distance at a lower environmental cost. Why did you buy an electron guzzler with more options and parts (so more emissions to produce) over a Model 3? Probably same reason, you found it more desirable.

 

[BJCanadaMax]

I will probably be pilloried, drawn and quartered etc. for this post, but I'm revising my opinion on all-electric cars.

First of all, I love my Turbo S. It is the best car I've ever had, and it is probably the most beautiful car I will ever own. The performance is staggering, and it is a joy to drive day-to-day. However, the burden of charging has caused me to rethink my use of the car, and I avoid long road-trips simply because of the uncertainty and inconvenience of charging at a remote station where I need to travel out of my way to get there, and it may involve a wait if stations are not functioning or available.

My wife just got a Mercedes 450GLE with the hybrid electric motor that gives 50-60 miles on a charge, and will charge 0-100% in three hours with a simple 220 outlet. She absolutely loves the car, and after three months still has half a tank of gas. This is also the car that we will be taking on all our longer road trips, because of the convenience and anxiety relieving gas engine. It's funny because she was not a fan of electric cars, but now she is spoiled, and loves the all-electric mode of the car. I'm amazed by this car - it has a better ride than my Taycan, and is incredibly quiet, smooth, and has 500+ miles of range.

I looked at the new Panamera Turbo with 670 HP and a hybrid motor with some 22kWh battery capacity, which should be good for 50-60 miles around town, and I really like the car. In fact, knowing what I know now, I would probably have chosen this car instead of my Taycan if both had been available at the same time. I would have almost all of the benefits of having an electric car with almost none of the problems. I think this may be the way of the future. Until the charging infrastructure is as prevalent as gas stations, I don't see all-electric cars taking over. With the upcoming severe strain on our electric grid infrastructure, I think the trend to hybrids will accelerate, especially as the hybrid motors gain capacity.

I'm wondering if anyone else here shares these views...?

I have my Prius since 2015-6. It is great and now they fixed all the performance issues. I just wish the 911 hybrid has good range like my Prius. I really enjoy having air con on without having to turn off the car.

 

[feye]

Wow, that is some impressive range! What brand of EV?

Zeekr 001 with CATL 140kWh battery. This battery is indeed a gamechanger. Comparing to my Tycan, it offers twice the range.

 

[Vim Schrotnock]

Great discussion with some very good points. The 'European experience' with charging stations evidently as common as gas stations will be difficult to reproduce here. I think it is similar to trains - incredible infrastructure in Europe, not so great here. I hope there will be a real incentive and initiative to develop and grow the charging infrastructure here, but we'll need to wait and see. Any long trips that we take will be with my wife's 450e GLE. Right now, longer trips are 1-2 hrs additional time with my car due because the entire trip is planned around charging stations, not simply the quickest route to the destination. (In 2021 I drove from Cincinnati to the Chesapeak Bay and had to drive around the entire state of West Virginia because there were NO HIGH POWER CHARGING STATIONS IN THE ENTIRE STATE)

Another point I'd like to throw out there is our overall grid capacity. There is an 18 month lead time on industrial generators because everyone is trying to increase their capacity. The AI revolution is projected to consume massive amounts of electricity, and I question whether our infrastructure will support significant increases in EV's and their charging stations.

Finally, I love my car, and intend to continue driving it until my 7yr, 100K warrantee expires.

 

[Hirschaj]

NO HIGH POWER CHARGING STATIONS IN THE ENTIRE STATE

So about the same amount of high power charging stations in West Virginia as teeth then. Got it

 

[Crazymind]

That GLE Hybrid is terrible! Almost bought one because the wife liked it and after driving it. it was a no go. Same for the RR hybrid.
they drive poorly compared to the non hybrid version. The GLE, even with Air suspension is poor on ride quality and the weight distribution makes it like an old SUV from early 2000s. Boot space it’s a joke, a smaller estate has got double the load capacity. Weight distribution due to the battery makes the steering very vague. And the additional power to the steering makes it very light. Mercedes did a poor job. Together with the RR Hybrid, at that price tag they are good just for business tax purposes.
Compare the cheaper base model to them both and they ride, drive much better and I bet they are cheaper to run.
I have not seen yet an hybrid with little compromise. Maybe the only reasonable hybrid still remains the Toyota Prius. Very good car for taxi drivers. However I rather walking or get the bus than driving a Prius.

 

[Vim Schrotnock]

That GLE Hybrid is terrible!

The CT is ugly. ?

 

[MHC]

I will probably be pilloried, drawn and quartered etc. for this post, but I'm revising my opinion on all-electric cars.

First of all, I love my Turbo S. It is the best car I've ever had, and it is probably the most beautiful car I will ever own. The performance is staggering, and it is a joy to drive day-to-day. However, the burden of charging has caused me to rethink my use of the car, and I avoid long road-trips simply because of the uncertainty and inconvenience of charging at a remote station where I need to travel out of my way to get there, and it may involve a wait if stations are not functioning or available.

My wife just got a Mercedes 450GLE with the hybrid electric motor that gives 50-60 miles on a charge, and will charge 0-100% in three hours with a simple 220 outlet. She absolutely loves the car, and after three months still has half a tank of gas. This is also the car that we will be taking on all our longer road trips, because of the convenience and anxiety relieving gas engine. It's funny because she was not a fan of electric cars, but now she is spoiled, and loves the all-electric mode of the car. I'm amazed by this car - it has a better ride than my Taycan, and is incredibly quiet, smooth, and has 500+ miles of range.

I looked at the new Panamera Turbo with 670 HP and a hybrid motor with some 22kWh battery capacity, which should be good for 50-60 miles around town, and I really like the car. In fact, knowing what I know now, I would probably have chosen this car instead of my Taycan if both had been available at the same time. I would have almost all of the benefits of having an electric car with almost none of the problems. I think this may be the way of the future. Until the charging infrastructure is as prevalent as gas stations, I don't see all-electric cars taking over. With the upcoming severe strain on our electric grid infrastructure, I think the trend to hybrids will accelerate, especially as the hybrid motors gain capacity.

I'm wondering if anyone else here shares these views...?

Totally different driving experience between the Taycan and a panamera hybrid. I traded my 2019 panamera 4s for a 2020 taycan turbo . Difference is Taycan drives like a 911 and the panamera drives like a mercedes e class. I agree that the charging network is a pain in the ass and feel your Pain of waiting for Uber drivers to fill up to 98 percent

 

[Murph7355]

In process of getting pricing on Panamera 4s and Turbo vs new Taycan 4s and Turbo. Seeing what difference in residuals plays (or doesn’t play) into things

Have you test driven an eHybrid Panamera?

I had one as a loaner. Felt like driving an old people's home and the power train wasn't that nice.

 

[mc9er]

Have you test driven an eHybrid Panamera?

I had one as a loaner. Felt like driving an old people's home and the power train wasn't that nice.

Lmao I have not yet … and after that description … not sure I will!

 

[Gino]

I will probably be pilloried, drawn and quartered etc. for this post, but I'm revising my opinion on all-electric cars.

First of all, I love my Turbo S. It is the best car I've ever had, and it is probably the most beautiful car I will ever own. The performance is staggering, and it is a joy to drive day-to-day. However, the burden of charging has caused me to rethink my use of the car, and I avoid long road-trips simply because of the uncertainty and inconvenience of charging at a remote station where I need to travel out of my way to get there, and it may involve a wait if stations are not functioning or available.

My wife just got a Mercedes 450GLE with the hybrid electric motor that gives 50-60 miles on a charge, and will charge 0-100% in three hours with a simple 220 outlet. She absolutely loves the car, and after three months still has half a tank of gas. This is also the car that we will be taking on all our longer road trips, because of the convenience and anxiety relieving gas engine. It's funny because she was not a fan of electric cars, but now she is spoiled, and loves the all-electric mode of the car. I'm amazed by this car - it has a better ride than my Taycan, and is incredibly quiet, smooth, and has 500+ miles of range.

I looked at the new Panamera Turbo with 670 HP and a hybrid motor with some 22kWh battery capacity, which should be good for 50-60 miles around town, and I really like the car. In fact, knowing what I know now, I would probably have chosen this car instead of my Taycan if both had been available at the same time. I would have almost all of the benefits of having an electric car with almost none of the problems. I think this may be the way of the future. Until the charging infrastructure is as prevalent as gas stations, I don't see all-electric cars taking over. With the upcoming severe strain on our electric grid infrastructure, I think the trend to hybrids will accelerate, especially as the hybrid motors gain capacity.

I'm wondering if anyone else here shares these views...?

I've always loved the idea of getting a hybrid but fortunately I always have 3 or 4 cars for just two of us so I buy vehicles for specific purposes.
I bought the Taycan to replace my 2000 Boxster which got totaled but my wife wanted a 2 door coupe but when I showed her the Taycan she jumped at it. We think it's the most beautiful 4 door car inside & out with incredible performance. The only downside is the range being easily less than 200.
We are happily resigned to use the Taycan around town & an occasional trip from OC to LV until I can replace the Boxster with another ICE Boxster or a longer range EV Boxster with 300+ mile range. They will get there which does simplify things. I have a Hummer H2 to go skiing in Tahoe or Utah and an Airstream Sprinter van (diesel) that gets 18mpg so I just need a longer range EV or possibly a hybrid to complete out set. We love our Taycan and will simply relegate it to a glorified, golf cart we can run around town in to run errands, go to dinner and ride the Southern California coast. I just don't want it to have a battery fire in my garage which is my top concern.
I have confidence Porsche will figure it out since I intend to buy another Porsche as soon as they come to market with something I can't pass up to put in my garage...

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