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D00notD00d

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Yes, I asked for a quote last Friday and will file a complaint to the city (they admitted the speed bumps are faulty) and ask them to pay for it. I expect to get things done coming weeks.
Just had a thought on this, if they remove the protection plate and see a dink on the underside of the HV tray you might find yourself in my position. Hopefully not, but you never know
 

whitex

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So the approval for the repair is all sorted @$44k. My current strategy is to meet with the Service Manager when I go down to get another loaner and see if there is indeed any diagnostic data (this was recommended by the PCNA CSR) - I'm going to stress that this isn't aimed at them but Porsche itself as I don't want them to get defensive.
I'm also going to ask for photos of the underside of the current HV tray to see if any of the lines are damaged (this will open another can of worms if there's no damage)
Whilst I do acknowledge the treatment from the dealer I do need them to be on-side for the momentm, as I've said before I need to pick my battles right now
Is that $44K assuming you get $12K core credit? Or do you get to keep the old battery?
 

Jasper4S

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Just had a thought on this, if they remove the protection plate and see a dink on the underside of the HV tray you might find yourself in my position. Hopefully not, but you never know
Yes they said it would be a possibility. I received the quote for the replacement of the plate: 1500€. That parts + loaner + labour. So we have very different prices here.
 
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whitex

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Yes they said it would be a possibility. I received the quote for the replacement of the plate: 1500€. That parts + loaner + labour. So we have very different prices here.
The dealership model in the USA, which the dealership lobbies are heavily supporting with millions in donations to appropriate politicians, allows the dealer to price their services at whatever they think the customer will pay. The dealer associations managed to ban Tesla and other direct-to-customer sales+service auto manufacturers in a few states, banning sales and even servicing cars not sold through the dealer system. So there are no official prices here for dealer services, except of course when billing warranty work to manufacturer, then there is a detailed set hourly allowance per type of service/repair.

Worth noting, there are a few honest dealers who charge reasonable prices. However, less and less as I've noticed ever-larger conglomerates of dealerships forming, buying up dealerships in wide geographical areas, then pushing a bunch of predatory policies, like forced products - you get the "sorry, corporate says we cannot sell any cars without these forced insurances or aftermarket upgrades - it's for your own good" and in order to find a dealer not owned by said large conglomerate, you have to drive far from your home area. Unlikely this will ever go to any anti-trust trials, since politicians are getting their cut from this model, so they will continue to pass laws protecting (requiring) it.
 


BullitX

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The dealership model in the USA, which the dealership lobbies are heavily supporting with millions in donations to appropriate politicians, allows the dealer to price their services at whatever they think the customer will pay. The dealer associations managed to ban Tesla and other direct-to-customer sales+service auto manufacturers in a few states, banning sales and even servicing cars not sold through the dealer system. So there are no official prices here for dealer services, except of course when billing warranty work to manufacturer, then there is a detailed set hourly allowance per type of service/repair.

Worth noting, there are a few honest dealers who charge reasonable prices. However, less and less as I've noticed ever-larger conglomerates of dealerships forming, buying up dealerships in wide geographical areas, then pushing a bunch of predatory policies, like forced products - you get the "sorry, corporate says we cannot sell any cars without these forced insurances or aftermarket upgrades - it's for your own good" and in order to find a dealer not owned by said large conglomerate, you have to drive far from your home area. Unlikely this will ever go to any anti-trust trials, since politicians are getting their cut from this model, so they will continue to pass laws protecting (requiring) it.
So dealers in USA are basically operating as mobsters?! How is that even legal in 2024… makes me appreciate Europe more now…
 

whitex

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So dealers in USA are basically operating as mobsters?! How is that even legal in 2024… makes me appreciate Europe more now…
Yea, lobbies are strong here. Even things which have the same names, say labor unions, operate differently than in Europe (e.g unions get a monopoly where they operate, no mixed-union shops allowed). Unions also have their lobbies too, donating to politicians. This is why for example why our current president pushed hard to tie EV incentives to only apply to vehicles manufactured by factories with US auto union - UAW, which supported his campaign, but apparently did not support enough other politicians because this condition failed to pass in congress.

Europe also has much stronger privacy and consumer protection laws. We don't even have simple protections such as a mandate to state all inclusive prices would be nice here (no hidden fees, taxes, levies, surcharges, etc).
 

tigerbalm

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Europe also has much stronger privacy and consumer protection laws. We don't even have simple protections such as a mandate to state all inclusive prices would be nice here (no hidden fees, taxes, levies, surcharges, etc).
OMG yes. It gets me every time I'm in the US: never truly knowing the price of anything. And the crazy tipping culture that has taken hold. Pay your staff a liveable wage already. Contactless payments/tap has made this a bit easier.

In most goods EU consumer law is way ahead of the US. In particular, that consumers only have to deal with the retailer that you purchased from and not the manufacturer. Buy a broken TV from a shop, its the shops problem.

But it must be said, in states that have lemon laws relating to cars – that gives consumers a reasonable option to hand back a car that is not working out. In Europe, there are all sorts of nuances that can make that situation more difficult.

Which is to say: consumer law – in practice – works better for cheaper goods than more expensive purchases.
 


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It gets me every time I'm in the US: never truly knowing the price of anything.
Your out the door price may actually be more than 2x what you see on the price sticker (before tip). Then there are these new "anti-inflation fees" which some restaurants have chosen to add. There is a fine print somewhere on the menu, where the restaurant says that in addition to all other taxes and fees, there will be an additional X% fee on your final bill to help offset inflation and "help us not to raise prices", with a clear note that "this fee does not go to staff so it should not be counted as part of a tip". I stopped patronizing such establishments, as this is essentially saying "we know our customers are morons who cannot tell the difference between rising prices and adding a flat percentage fee". I would have understood just raising all prices by X%, but this hidden fee is just insulting to me, hence I vote with my wallet and go elsewhere on principle.

And the crazy tipping culture that has taken hold. Pay your staff a liveable wage already. Contactless payments/tap has made this a bit easier.
Don't get me started on the out of control tipping. It's one reason I refuse to use food delivery services, you never know if even a 50% will be considered enough so that the delivery driver will not spit in your food, or dump on your porch, or keep some of it for themselves. There are even self-checkouts at stores which ask for a tip during the payment phase. And of course, there is also the fact that most tips nowadays are expected to be paid up front, before you receive the service. Contactless payments do not help any of this, you still get asked for a tip when using tap to pay.

EDIT: I sure hope the dealer in this thread will not ask the customer for a tip on the $44K repair. I actually was asked for a tip on a car service last year (not a Porsche), talk about trying to guilt trip a customer into paying an extra. When I saw the question on the POS screen I almost blew coffee out of my nose (I was drinking coffee while waiting for the car). Suggested tip was over $100!
 
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BullitX

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Your out the door price may actually be more than 2x what you see on the price sticker (before tip). Then there are these new "anti-inflation fees" which some restaurants have chosen to add. There is a fine print somewhere on the menu, where the restaurant says that in addition to all other taxes and fees, there will be an additional X% fee on your final bill to help offset inflation and "help us not to raise prices", with a clear note that "this fee does not go to staff so it should not be counted as part of a tip". I stopped patronizing such establishments, as this is essentially saying "we know our customers are morons who cannot tell the difference between rising prices and adding a flat percentage fee". I would have understood just raising all prices by X%, but this hidden fee is just insulting to me, hence I vote with my wallet and go elsewhere on principle.


Don't get me started on the out of control tipping. It's one reason I refuse to use food delivery services, you never know if even a 50% will be considered enough so that the delivery driver will not spit in your food, or dump on your porch, or keep some of it for themselves. There are even self-checkouts at stores which ask for a tip during the payment phase. And of course, there is also the fact that most tips nowadays are expected to be paid up front, before you receive the service. Contactless payments do not help any of this, you still get asked for a tip when using tap to pay.

EDIT: I sure hope the dealer in this thread will not ask the customer for a tip on the $44K repair. I actually was asked for a tip on a car service last year (not a Porsche), talk about trying to guilt trip a customer into paying an extra. When I saw the question on the POS screen I almost blew coffee out of my nose (I was drinking coffee while waiting for the car). Suggested tip was over $100!
I'm speechless... is it really that bad?! Or does it only apply at a few establishments?
 

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I'm speechless... is it really that bad?! Or does it only apply at a few establishments?
It absolutely depends where you go, but it got worse after COVID. On the bright side, there are a few businesses which have recognized the issues. I heard of a bar in Seattle which raised their prices, paid their staff more, and eliminated tips - apparently it was a hit with the customers, at least at first (I've never been there, just read about in local news). Some businesses also try to compete with ads "this is the price you pay, period", which appeals to people tired of all the junk fees and upcharges. Sadly, apparently the average American compares advertised prices vs. actual costs, so the crappy upcharges continue in a lot of places. Another trick I noticed more common recently, for those who cannot do math, the tip is calculated by multiplying the percentage chosen by the customer by the final price, with all the upcharges and taxes, rather than against the price of the good/service only.

I think the worst to date I experienced was an internet service many years ago - advertised price $17.99 a month, actual bill ~$50, and climbing from month to month by $0.25-$0.75 (various fees, surcharges, and "taxes" increasing) - boiling the frog technique, counting on people being lazy and not wanting to shop for an alternative. Funny thing was, after it got to $80, I cancelled, but kept getting sales calls from them, however whenever I asked "how much total bill will I be paying" I could NEVER get a straight answer, so even their own sales people could calculate the final charges - the only way to find out was to sign a contract and see what your bill ended up being (which kept going up too) - their answer always was "just sign the contract, you can cancel within 30 days with no penalty (which was also a lie, as installation/connection fee was not refundable)".
 

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Contactless payments do not help any of this, you still get asked for a tip when using tap to pay.
I worded it badly. What I meant is tap helped with paying the final amounts. Years ago when I just used cash and with European instincts I was constantly getting caught out. See toothpaste for $1.99 on the shelf – go the the cashier with my two dollar notes and get surprised when the total was $2.38 and I was left scrambling for more bills.

Tap probably makes actual bill gouging worse. Sure just tap, whats the problem ?
 

D00notD00d

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Back in the room.

UK law on speed bump/hump height allows them to be 100mm (4”) high.
Other countries are likely to be similar.

For Taycan saloon or Sport Turismo, Low, Range or Sport Plus settings give the following ground clearances:
Turbo S - 104mm​
Taycan & 4S - 105mm​
Turbo - 106mm​
(i.e. 4.09-4.17”)​
So only 4-6mm (one eighth to one quarter of an inch) construction tolerance before potential grounding. Factor in tyre wear of up to 5mm and approach/exit angle and you’re grounded.

Given the clearance heights above and the 3mm tolerance before fatal battery damage can occur, Porsche should implement a software change to turn off the reduced ground clearance effect of Low, Range and Sport Plus settings while the vehicle speed (or speed limit) is under 30mph. (Perhaps that should also apply to the Lowered setting).​

Low, Range and Sport Plus settings shouldn’t be used in Urban or City locations or around road works.

Of course road debris can still get you anywhere and at any height, which could be solved by modifying battery design/protection on pre 2025 cars.

The Lowered setting adds 12mm more clearance to the figures above. Normal adds a further 10mm.
For CT’s add about 20mm (0.75”) to all settings. Their High setting adds a further 20-30mm. I wonder if this problem affects CTs to any extent?
 
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BullitX

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Back in the room.

UK law on speed bump/hump height allows them to be 100mm (4”) high.
Other countries are likely to be similar.

For Taycan saloon or Sport Turismo, Low, Range or Sport Plus settings give the following ground clearances:
Turbo S - 104mm​
Taycan & 4S - 105mm​
Turbo - 106mm​
(i.e. 4.09-4.17”)​
So only 4-6mm (one eighth to one quarter of an inch) construction tolerance before potential grounding. Factor in tyre wear of up to 5mm and approach/exit angle and you’re grounded.

Given the clearance heights above and the 3mm tolerance before fatal battery damage can occur, Porsche should implement a software change to turn off the reduced ground clearance effect of Low, Range and Sport Plus settings while the vehicle speed (or speed limit) is under 30mph. (Perhaps that should also apply to the Lowered setting).​

Low, Range and Sport Plus settings shouldn’t be used in Urban or City locations or around road works.

Of course road debris can still get you anywhere and at any height, which could be solved by modifying battery design/protection on pre 2025 cars.

The Lowered setting adds 12mm more clearance to the figures above. Normal adds a further 10mm.
For CT’s add about 20mm (0.75”) to all settings. Their High setting adds a further 20-30mm. I wonder if this problem affects CTs to any extent?
Interesting. My take would be, why drive in Sport Plus mode in areas that have speed bumps anyway? To make it more foolproof, I like your idea of limiting the ride height under a specific speed, similar to how Lift mode is limited to a certain speed.

Personally, I would just select Lift mode in areas where I know there are speed bumps. The speed limit for Lift mode is 30 km/h. Where I live, most roads with a 30 km/h limit have fairly aggressive speed bumps, while roads with higher speed limits either don't have bumps or have very mild ones. So, Lift mode would work perfectly in this case.

Combining your suggestion of limited lowering in Sport Plus mode with the current Lift mode would provide a great solution.

But wouldn’t it be cool if the car could "see" the road ahead, spot a bump or pothole, and adjust the suspension automatically? If I’m not mistaken, some high-end cars already have this feature!
 

whitex

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My take would be, why drive in Sport Plus mode in areas that have speed bumps anyway?
For example you are doing a spirited drive on a scenic highway, then decide to exit to charge and forget to change drive mode back to something higher.
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