Existing EV batteries may last up to 40% longer than expected (Stanford study results)

[marc]

Existing EV batteries may last up to 40% longer than expected

Consumers’ real-world stop-and-go driving of electric vehicles benefits batteries more than the steady use simulated in almost all laboratory tests of new battery designs, Stanford-SLAC study finds.

https://news.stanford.edu/stories/2...teries-may-last-up-to-40-longer-than-expected

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[SergeyIndy]

This is very encouraging info. The only catch is that the modules need to be high quality. There is no point to battery longevity if we as owners need to worry about endless ARB recalls.

 

[Watchesandburgers]

I sold my 2013 Tesla Model S (60 kwh battery) in 2024. When new the car showed 185 miles on a standard 90% charge. When I sold it the same charge level indicated 160-165 miles of range, which is an 11%-13.5% drop over 11 years. Obviously one data point doesn't prove anything, but this seemed perfectly reasonable for a car of that age. Literally, YMMV.

 

[Fish Fingers]

I sold my 2013 Tesla Model S (60 kwh battery) in 2024. When new the car showed 185 miles on a standard 90% charge. When I sold it the same charge level indicated 160-165 miles of range, which is an 11%-13.5% drop over 11 years. Obviously one data point doesn't prove anything, but this seemed perfectly reasonable for a car of that age. Literally, YMMV.

What mileage had the car done ?

And was it mostly home charging or rapid DC charging?

Just out of interest.

 

[Watchesandburgers]

Car had 75000 miles on it with 95% charging at home (40 amp plug).

 

[SergeyIndy]

I sold my 2013 Tesla Model S (60 kwh battery) in 2024. When new the car showed 185 miles on a standard 90% charge. When I sold it the same charge level indicated 160-165 miles of range, which is an 11%-13.5% drop over 11 years. Obviously one data point doesn't prove anything, but this seemed perfectly reasonable for a car of that age. Literally, YMMV.

This is pretty impressive given my Taycan lost 12% in 12k miles. Now it just needs to hold it there.

 

[D00notD00d]

The battery cooling method may make a difference to longevity?
Taycan LG batteries seem to use only bottom cooling, underneath the modules/cells. That also means underbody damage is more likely to affect the cooling system.
Tesla batteries use integral cooling, inside the modules, and around the cells. IDK if that differs by model.

Watch from about 15mins in.

 

[Tooney]

Consumers’ real-world stop-and-go driving of electric vehicles benefits batteries more than the steady use simulated in almost all laboratory tests of new battery designs, Stanford-SLAC study finds.
. . .
“We’ve not been testing EV batteries the right way,” said Simona Onori, senior author and an associate professor of energy science and engineering in the Stanford Doerr School of Sustainability. “To our surprise, real driving with frequent acceleration, braking that charges the batteries a bit, stopping to pop into a store, and letting the batteries rest for hours at a time, helps batteries last longer than we had thought based on industry standard lab tests.”
. . .
For example, the study showed a correlation between sharp, short EV accelerations and slower degradation. This was contrary to long-held assumptions of battery researchers, including this study’s team, that acceleration peaks are bad for EV batteries. Pressing the pedal with your foot hard does not speed up aging. If anything, it slows it down, explained Alexis Geslin, one of three lead authors of the study and a PhD student in materials science and engineering and in computer science in Stanford’s School of Engineering.
. . .
“For consumers using their EVs to get to work, pick up their kids, go to the grocery store, but mostly not using them or even charging them, time becomes the predominant cause of aging over cycling.”
https://news.stanford.edu/stories/2...teries-may-last-up-to-40-longer-than-expected

 

[Teejeemmm]

Nice!
Thx for letting us know?

 

[Midlifecrisis]

This bit is particularly reassuring

Pressing the pedal with your foot hard does not speed up aging. If anything, it slows it down,

 

[chun]

The battery cooling method may make a difference to longevity?
Taycan LG batteries seem to use only bottom cooling, underneath the modules/cells. That also means underbody damage is more likely to affect the cooling system.
Tesla batteries use integral cooling, inside the modules, and around the cells. IDK if that differs by model.

Watch from about 15mins in.

Yes and no.

Any kind of cooling / heating will have a positive impact. So having a heat pump that does battery temperature regulation will have a big impact compared to not having it.
When you get down to how it is done specifically, there is for sure some difference, but hardly significant.

To this you have to add the variance that is battery chemistry. Newer chemistries are much less sensible to temperature, and therefore much less impacted in the long term by temperature. So they will last longer.

And to all of that you have to add battery design: pouch (taycan - LG), Cylindrical (tesla), and Prismatic.

• Pouch is a bit outdated at this point, but it is quite flexible in terms of how you actually put it in the car, and it is the cheapest.
• Cylindrical offers better heat management, and are more consistent in terms of temperature extremes. They offer highest safety, as one failures don't propagate so easy as with a pouch design, and are usually constrained to one specific cylindrical cell, as each has its own casing.
• Prismatic is what most chinese manufacturers use. It is very similar to cylindrical but with a design that's easier to package.

Porsche in the new 718 EV will use prismatic one, from Northvolt. So no longer the pouch ones from LG. It's a sign that after they experienced so many failures in taycan with the LG pouch ones, they are not willing to risk it again, moving to a newer, heavier, and much safer battery design.
Northvolt also has state of the art battery chemistry, with Sodium-ion batteries, but i doub't those will make it in any car before 2028, as they just released them for development in 2024.
That being said, Porsche has delayed 718 and annoyed Northvolt by asking for many redesigns, so maybe it will be new chesmitry. Who knows.

 

[D00notD00d]

Thanks.
My understanding is that Tesla mostly use cylindrical.
Does the Macan also use LG pouches?

 

[chun]

Thanks.
My understanding is that Tesla mostly use cylindrical.
Does the Macan also use LG pouches?

https://electrek.co/2023/08/16/catl-new-fast-charging-battery-250-mi-10-min/

This is the battery used in the macan

 

[Dabz]

Funny how for years nobody has reported on the fact you buy a car with certain bhp and the engine loses power over the years. Nobody is putting their 10yr old car on a rolling road to confirm engine power before buying.

I get that range is more important than power for most people but it tickles me that there's a fascination with range with EVs but not with power output on ICE

 

[D00notD00d]

https://electrek.co/2023/08/16/catl-new-fast-charging-battery-250-mi-10-min/

This is the battery used in the macan

Too early for the next gen and a 1000km/600ml range:
https://www.catl.com/en/news/6239.html

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