Class action filed Sept 25 against Porsche

[steve H]

I have a 2021 Taycan 4S that has/had a 22kw onboard charger. Went to unplug it from my 11kw home charger recently only to find the plugin release button flashing red and the house fuse to EV charger had tripped. The dash reported “electrical system fault, inspection needed” Porsche’s response was “no idea what the problem is, but you need to arrange to have the car transported to us” my only option was to pay Porsche assist premium of £435. The AA contacted me and said a technician would first inspect the car to see if roadside assistance could resolve then problem, if not the car would be transported to the garage. The AA tech called me to confirm his arrival time and asked what the problem was. As soon as I told him the make and model, he asked “was the car on charge, and had the fuse tripped on the EV charger” I said yes, he said “sorry mate nothing I can do, the onboard charger’s blown, I’ll arrange transport” !!!!!
So I’m suppose to believe Porsche didn’t know what the problem was, but an AA man instantly did!
Like so many others that I’ve since read on line, Porsche tell me “sorry, the 22kw charger has to be replaced with an 11kw charger, as the 22 is no longer available. And to add insult to injury, I got an email from Porsche stating very clearly that “don’t worry, it won’t effect the car’s fast charge abilities” I mean WTF!
Ive since read a class action has been filed in the US last month involving battery and charger issues. My question is, has anyone looked into this? Should other owners in similarly circumstances to my experiences join the action. Or, has anyone considered filing a class action in the UK?
Be interested in any feedback

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[whitex]

You might want to link to the specific class action lawsuit if you are asking people's opinion about it.

As for the lack of 22kW replacement part, I think this should be a slam dunk in court, at least in the US, as unable to repair a car under warranty back to manufacturer's specification. No difference than if your engine broke on the 911 GT3RS and they gave you back a 911 with a 2L 4 cylinder 718 engine because the 911 V6 is discontinued due to being too expensive. I have the 22kW option, and I use it (at 19.2kW, which is max for US) at home, so when it breaks again (already on my second one), this will have to be a serious conversation with Porsche corporate, and/or their legal department. I might not be interested in a class action though, as most of the money will go the lawyers from that. An individual lawsuit is more likely to be settled privately (though it takes a lot more effort from you).

 

[steve H]

You might want to link to the specific class action lawsuit if you are asking people's opinion about it.

As for the lack of 22kW replacement part, I think this should be a slam dunk in court, at least in the US, as unable to repair a car under warranty back to manufacturer's specification. No difference than if your engine broke on the 911 GT3RS and they gave you back a 911 with a 2L 4 cylinder 718 engine because the 911 6L V6 is discontinued due to being too expensive. I have the 22kW option, and I use it (at 19.2kW, which is max for US) at home, so when it breaks again (already on my second one), this will have to be a serious conversation with Porsche corporate, and/or their legal department. I might not be interested in a class action though, as most of the money will go the lawyers from that. An individual lawsuit is more likely to be settled privately (though it takes a lot more effort from you).

Thanks for your comments, much appreciated. What’s interesting about the class action in the US is that they are seeking a full reimbursement for the original cost of the car. If achieved it will set an important precedent. Ive yet to take legal advice in the UK but my concerns would be that whilst Im confident I’d win in court in forcing Porsche to buy back the car, it’s likely that it would only be at its current value and not what I paid for it. The reason for my post was to put the question out there, are we all just going to take a massive hit or can we collectively take legal action in the UK?

 

[anonymouse]

Sorry this has happened. These 22kW chargers on J.1 Taycans are indeed failing for a number of owners. I had mine replaced under warranty in the first year after I bought it.

Class actions are a US thing. We have lots of other consumer protection law in the UK but thankfully we do not live in a litigation-centred country.

The general advice on this forum has always been: get an extended warranty. And Porsche Assist or some other sort of breakdown cover eg AA/RAC/Green Flag/etc, although it seems you have that so I don't understand where the £435 comes from.

Without a warranty. you could look at whether consumer law provides you with other protections on the basis that the 22kW design is not viable and therefore not of merchantable quality. But your first recourse is a proper conversation with management at the dealership and correspondence with Porsche GB.

Regarding replacing a 22kW charger with an 11kW version, I agree that this is unsatisfactory and perhaps some modest compensation would be appropriate. However do you actually need 22kW? The number of places with actually useful 22kW chargers in the UK is very small -- a few people have them at work, and a few have 3-phase power at home, but it's much less common than in, say, Germany. The J.2 Taycan does not have 22kW at all by the way.

 

[whitex]

Regarding replacing a 22kW charger with an 11kW version, I agree that this is unsatisfactory and perhaps some modest compensation would be appropriate. However do you actually need 22kW? The number of places with actually useful 22kW chargers in the UK is very small -- a few people have them at work, and a few have 3-phase power at home, but it's much less common than in, say, Germany. The J.2 Taycan does not have 22kW at all by the way.

That's a silly argument. "do you actually need it". Nobody needs a Porsche, it doesn't allow Porsche to take your Porsche car and give you a Fiat in return, since it will still take you to work just fine, and majority of people use it for commuting at the speeds which the Fiat will do just fine. Majority of people never use their airbags either, it doesn't mean that instead of repairing them Porsche could just give you the cost of an airbag part in lieu of repair.

 

[steve H]

That's a silly argument. "do you actually need it". Nobody needs a Porsche, it doesn't allow Porsche to take your Porsche car and give you a Fiat in return, since it will still take you to work just fine, and majority of people use it for commuting at the speeds which the Fiat will do just fine. Majority of people never use their airbags either, it doesn't mean that instead of repairing them Porsche could just give you the cost of an airbag part in lieu of repair.

100% agree. The issue is, I purchased a car with a specific specification. I paid £1200 as an optional extra in order that the car meets with my personnel requirements. Porsche has now retrospectively changed that specification. I will of course attempt to negotiate directly with Porsche UK to reach a "reasonable" settlement. If and when that processes has been exhausted without agreement, then and only then I will look to litigate.

 

[anonymouse]

That's a silly argument.

Rather than your dramatic illustrations I'd cite the pen holder in the glove box. Mine's broken but I just don't care.

It's not the same in the US because the power systems are different, but in the UK very few people actually use or need 22kW. Most use either 7.4kW (at home) or DC (on the road). Putting in 3-phase power at home (to deliver 22kW) can cost £3,000-£15,000 depending on whether they need to dig up the street.

I've not seen anyone complaining about the J1.2 omitting this feature. And many of the people who have a 22kW charger only have an 11kW Type 2 cable anyway. So why get worked up about it? Less stress: go and enjoy driving.


Where I do agree is that the option was charged for at point of sale, therefore if it is withdrawn there should be an appropriate refund. Hopefully Porsche will see reason on this point.

 

[Dee]

No difference than if your engine broke on the 911 GT3RS and they gave you back a 911 with a 2L 4 cylinder 718 engine because the 911 V6 is discontinued due to being too expensive.

Poor comparison.
It has nothing to do with the motors and/or performance of the car but with filling up the "tank".
It's like the original filling hose is unreliable and no longer available, therefore you'll become a smaller filling hose which takes filling twice as long.
Now, what's your choice?
No filling hose at all or a filling hose that is reliable but filing will take twice as long?

To put things in perspective: my 11 kW OBC is filling my "tank" in 8 hours, that's enough to have it full in the morning.
If it was a 22 kW OBC it would be ready in the middle of the night and doing nothing until sunrise.
No one needs a 22 kW OBC anyway.

 

[Dee]

I paid £1200 as an optional extra in order that the car meets with my personnel requirements.

Fully agree.
Porsche should reimburse you, no question about that.

 

[steve H]

Let me try and put this debate into simpler terms for you. Last week if I pulled into the services on the M25 and plugged into say 350kw fast charger, because of my onboard 22kw charger I could put around 100 miles in the battery in 20 minutes. if I do the same next week (with my new 11kw onboard charger) I will be sitting there for 40 minutes, twice the time. Admittedly i could use the extra time to try and fix the pen holder maybe !

 

[csm7djs]

Let me try and put this debate into simpler terms for you. Last week if I pulled into the services on the M25 and plugged into say 350kw fast charger, because of my onboard 22kw charger I could put around 100 miles in the battery in 20 minutes. if I do the same next week (with my new 11kw onboard charger) I will be sitting there for 40 minutes, twice the time. Admittedly i could use the extra time to try and fix the pen holder maybe !

Thats not how it works. The 22kw charger in that instant is irrelevant.

If you plug your car into a 350kw charger, it will charge at that speed.

I don't have the the 22kw charger - my car happily charges at 250kw+ at the Ionity chargers.

But we used to have a 22kw charger at work - my car in this instance would only charge at 11kw...

If I had spec'd that car from new with the 22kw charger and they replaced it with a 11kw charger I would absolutely be asking for the full option price back...

 

[Dee]

Let me try and put this debate into simpler terms for you. Last week if I pulled into the services on the M25 and plugged into say 350kw fast charger, because of my onboard 22kw charger I could put around 100 miles in the battery in 20 minutes. if I do the same next week (with my new 11kw onboard charger) I will be sitting there for 40 minutes, twice the time. Admittedly i could use the extra time to try and fix the pen holder maybe !

The 11/22 kW AC/DC OBC has nothing to do with the 270 kW DC/DC charger of the car.

I have the 11 kW OBC and I charge from 10-80% in 20 minutes (that's 250 km or 156 miles)

 

[steve H]

Question, if the 11kw OBC is so efficient why would Porsche bother to develop/build and offer a 22kw OBC. From recollection the answer was pretty straight forward "when you're charging on the road it will halve your charging time" Your comments seem to suggest the 22kw OBC has no significant benefits?

 

[Fish Fingers]

Fully agree.
Porsche should reimburse you, no question about that.

Plus out of pocket costs, and a gesture of goodwill for time wasted, inconvenience etc, I would say.

 

[Fish Fingers]

Question, if the 11kw OBC is so efficient why would Porsche bother to develop/build and offer a 22kw OBC. From recollection the answer was pretty straight forward "when you're charging on the road it will halve your charging time" Your comments seem to suggest the 22kw OBC has no significant benefits?

I am sure someone will correct me if I am wrong, but the 11 / 22kw OBC relates to AC charging. Where it requires the smaller charging port.

The DC (fast charging) is unaffected by this (up to 270kw), where the extra chargng port flap is used.

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