Next gen (second generation) Taycan platform is "locked" and coming late 2027

[MissionE]

It's possibly worth noting that despite all the naysaying on this thread, the Taycan is consistently top of the "best EVs" lists in numerous places, so despite poor sales figures it's not a bad car. It's just a bad market (for high end, expensive, Porsche badged EVs).

Do they really need to move 40k cars a year to be profitable?

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[69Mach390]

Cool story, but this is not a problem in the EU.
You also have very much a doomer mindset.

Think back about what was 10 years ago in 2016. The average EV sold had a range of under 100 miles. Charging took forever.
In 10 years the range has at least doubled if not tripled, and the charging speed is much faster too.
What makes you think that in another 10 years it won't also be the case? Certainly if solid state batteries come to market en masse, then things will be very different.
BYD has technology to charge cars at 1MW already today.

Also the infrastructure argument is ridiculous. 99% of gasoline pumps are also not in use most of the time, and certainly nobody has their own gasoline pump at home!
And if you're wondering about power generation, then local energy storage is the solution (which is why I also really like stocks of companies, such as $ENS) and new cheap safe battery technology, such as sodium ion really plays into this (going into production at CATL already).
This will fix itself over time.

Now, I don't know what will happen in the land of the bald eagle, simply because there's like zero public transit there and distances are large, but over here in the EU charging is not really a problem anymore.

My scenario isn’t a hypothetical, it’s a reality every year.

I’ll go on record stating there will never be enough DC infrastructure to evacuate millions of people out of Florida at the same time for a major hurricane.

It’s ok if gas station pumps are vacant most of the time because that business model can support it.

DC stations are significantly more expensive and lose money even being used regularly. To have the capacity to evacuate, the losses on that infrastructure are insurmountable for the exact reason you stated- we have a gas pump at home.

DC is really only for road trips and in case of emergency.

But that’s just one issue. You mentioned the issues we have over here in the land of the eagle is population density, or lack there of where charging and public transport don’t work for everyone.

Add in all the “I can’t charge at home” large percentage of the population who rent and 100% adoption was never realistic.

Either they have to push the year for technology to catch up or fudge the numbers so we aren’t at 100%.

 

[69Mach390]

Do they really need to move 40k cars a year to be profitable?

Probably more. And that’s with one of the highest priced EV from a major manufacturer.

At least in the US, for the few EVs that sell 40k+ per year, almost all still lose money.


There are 73 EV models currently for sale in the US from major manufacturers . 130 if you count specially small volume manufacturers.

Sadly it only takes 20k sales to break into the TOP 10.

So you can imagine how low the sales numbers are at the bottom of the list.

 

[MissionE]

My scenario isn’t a hypothetical, it’s a reality every year.

I’ll go on record stating there will never be enough DC infrastructure to evacuate millions of people out of Florida at the same time for a major hurricane.

It’s ok if gas station pumps are vacant most of the time because that business model can support it.

DC stations are significantly more expensive and lose money even being used regularly. To have the capacity to evacuate, the losses on that infrastructure are insurmountable for the exact reason you stated- we have a gas pump at home.

DC is really only for road trips and in case of emergency.

But that’s just one issue. You mentioned the issues we have over here in the land of the eagle is population density, or lack there of where charging and public transport don’t work for everyone.

Add in all the “I can’t charge at home” large percentage of the population who rent and 100% adoption was never realistic.

Either they have to push the year for technology to catch up or fudge the numbers so we aren’t at 100%.

Hey, as long as Floridians can evacuate, we’re good.

 

[MissionE]

Probably more. And that’s with one of the highest priced EV from a major manufacturer.

At least in the US, for the few EVs that sell 40k+ per year, almost all still lose money.


There are 73 EV models currently for sale in the US from major manufacturers . 130 if you count specially small volume manufacturers.

Sadly it only takes 20k sales to break into the TOP 10.

So you can imagine how low the sales numbers are at the bottom of the list.

Taycan initial goal was 20k. Happy they surpassed that, even if briefly. But there’s also a point where you don’t need billions of dollars in overhead to be a healthy company.

 

[tigerbalm]

For now, panamera EV existing by 2030 is just speculation. There is no credible source, info or mules or anything to indicate that it’s a real thing.

I assume Audi will make an A8 BEV at some stage, which will be the basis for an Panamera BEV, if Porsche want to bother?

 

[slothinker]

What do we want from this car? Solid state battery, bring back the old headlamps, give the Rwd more power, and a backup camera that isn’t weird. .

I'd like to see the original lights and 'tear drops' come back. That is a unique, classic look and if it costs a few miles of range, I couldn't care less.

I was planning to upgrade to the '25 model until I saw what they did to the front end, in particular. And I got from BMW to the Taycan I have because of the Edsel-ization of the BMW EV front ends in the 2021-22 time frame.

 

[tigerbalm]

Do they really need to move 40k cars a year to be profitable?

In 2022 Porsche said they sold twice as many Taycan's a year as they estimated they would when they green-lit the project.

And while they probably thought this trend would continue, if the market falls back to 20,000 Taycan's a year they can do okay with it.

The Taycan factory is also very modern and adaptable (using something they call Process 4.0). It has flexible assembly lines based on robots rather than fixed tracks.

That factory will almost certainly have other cars going down the line alongside Taycan's in the future. It has been built from the ground up to accommodate it.

That will help support a lower Taycan delivery number while keeping the manufacturing facilities at capacity.

That said, they've moved back – for a while now – to one shift a day (down from two). And the 911 factory has gone from three shifts (24/7) down to two due to the 718 EV not being released yet.

 

[MissionE]

In 2022 Porsche said they sold twice as many Taycan's a year as they estimated they would when they green-lit the project.

And while they probably thought this trend would continue, if the market falls back to 20,000 Taycan's a year they can do okay with it.

The Taycan factory is also very modern and adaptable (using something they call Process 4.0). It has flexible assembly lines based on robots rather than fixed tracks.

That factory will almost certainly have other cars going down the line alongside Taycan's in the future. It has been built from the ground up to accommodate it.

That will help support a lower Taycan delivery number while keeping the manufacturing facilities at capacity.

That said, they've moved back – for a while now – to one shift a day (down from two). And the 911 factory has gone from three shifts (24/7) down to two due to the 718 EV not being released yet.

Always a pleasure to hear from an insider. Personally looking forward to 718 ev because as good as the Taycan is, a smaller, lighter coupe with the same performance will be a game changer.

 

[69Mach390]

Taycan initial goal was 20k. Happy they surpassed that, even if briefly. But there’s also a point where you don’t need billions of dollars in overhead to be a healthy company.

Yeah, but it requires Porsche to sell the same hardware car for $200k as they do for $100k just with a different state of horsepower tune.

Not something every manufacturer can get away with.

 

[69Mach390]

Hey, as long as Floridians can evacuate, we’re good.

Nah, just add it to the long list of reasons why 100% adoption isn’t possible with current technology.

EVs are a tool that are awesome for certain use cases, but not for every use case. The problem (since the late 1800s) has been the battery. Not much has changed in 130 years in terms of the same problems that keep them from being THE car vs just one option among many.

 

[MissionE]

Nah, just add it to the long list of reasons why 100% adoption isn’t possible with current technology.

EVs are a tool that are awesome for certain use cases, but not for every use case. The problem (since the late 1800s) has been the battery. Not much has changed in 130 years in terms of the same problems that keep them from being THE car vs just one option among many.

And once we figure out integrated solar panels for all, or near-all, power, game changer.

 

[69Mach390]

And once we figure out integrated solar panels for all, or near-all, power, game changer.

Wireless highway charging attached to large solar fields?

Would be neat if someone else pays for it. It also charges way too slow. Adding 4 mph of range when driving 80 mph doesn’t do much.

Or, I just got back from Switzerland. Super impressed with their electric trains, wouldn’t even need to charge if cars worked like my 1980s electric “race car track,” except those kept crashing on corners.




But still is a technology and infrastructure cost issue and won’t happen by 2035.

 

[Bognar67]

Ok I am just a politically brainwashed human being by the amplified media but still can’t get how will Porsche sell 90% BEV in 2035 from their formalising product portfolio that will be ca. 90% ICE/hybrid around 2030 stil.
Or with other approach how seriously they take the ban now.

 

[MissionE]

Wireless highway charging attached to large solar fields?

Would be neat if someone else pays for it. It also charges way too slow. Adding 4 mph of range when driving 80 mph doesn’t do much.

Or, I just got back from Switzerland. Super impressed with their electric trains, wouldn’t even need to charge if cars worked like my 1980s electric “race car track,” except those kept crashing on corners.




But still is a technology and infrastructure cost issue and won’t happen by 2035.

Solar on cars.

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