[opinion] - hmmm…VW/Audi/Porsche may be in trouble…

[69Mach390]

Just for the record on Telsa:

1) Tesla is 9th on new car reliability now, according to Consumer Reports: https://www.consumerreports.org/car...who-makes-the-most-reliable-cars-a7824554938/

2) There isn't a breakdown of sales on the differing Model Y levels, but the cost difference is ~40K to ~48K (removing the performance vs which I don't think sells enough to matter much). Average cost of 45K for a car is not cheap, yet more people are choosing it.

3) Tesla brand loyalty is falling, yet the Model Y is still selling well (indicating the EV market is growing): https://www.spglobal.com/automotive-insights/en/blogs/2025/09/tesla-brand-loyalty-evolving-ev-market

I take CR ratings with a grain of salt. They use surveys of owners for results. And if you’ve met a Tesla loyalist, you know they’re not exactly unbiased.

But if they’re getting better in reliability that’s good. They’ve been at the bottom of JD power reliability studies for years.

Tesla has consistently undercut the price of direct EV competitors. “cheap” is relative.

For sure they’re feeling some pain now. Between tons of competition, Musk, tax credit eliminations and price squeezing (plus some stale models like the S and X and the cyber flop) it’s not all upside from here.

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[Tooney]

Porsche Admits a Big Mistake: We Were Wrong to Kill the Gas-Powered Macan

 

[Fish Fingers]

Just a question I would be interested in from our US members.

Do many people in the US prefer to buy Tesla because they are an American company (national loyalty)?

 

[jk981]

Just a question I would be interested in from our US members.

Do many people in the US prefer to buy Tesla because they are an American company (national loyalty)?

I put them higher in consideration personally, because replacement parts can be sourced easier vs 3 month wait from Germany.

 

[SoccerMan94043]

Just a question I would be interested in from our US members.

Do many people in the US prefer to buy Tesla because they are an American company (national loyalty)?

Just a general opinion from someone in a blue state.

Tesla was hated by more conservative Americans for most of their existence, I guess threatened by EVs in general (and maybe the impact to the oil/coal industries). Just look up Tesla and rolling coal on YouTube. That changed somewhat when Musk went all in on Trump, though I think those people are still conflicted. I assume a small percentage of those people would buy a Tesla due Trump advertising them at the Whitehouse. I doubt they even know they were designed and made in America.

The people who put Tesla on the map were mostly people who wanted to see EV thrive (more environmentally conscious) or, like me, loved the instant torque and software approach. While it being designed and made in my backyard was interesting, it's not why I chose a Model S in 2015.

In the end value is king and Tesla has had the best value cars out there, imo. I don't think buying American crosses many people's thoughts when they are actually making a buying tradeoff.

 

[daveo4EV]

Just a question I would be interested in from our US members.

Do many people in the US prefer to buy Tesla because they are an American company (national loyalty)?

for me personaly american made is a "bonus" not a requirement - but honestly I was buyng the most forward looking technology…vs. what was out there from any other company - and it still is in many ways…

these days you see Model 3's and Model Y's all over the place - and I would take any of those over a honda/toyota ICE vehicle…but not over a better quality product.

but for their price segment in North America the Model 3 and Y are IMHO the best product for the money vs. similar priced alternatives.

the Model S and Model X in many ways have still yet to be matched in terms of any product…and thererfore are still a "forward" looking product but the gap has narrowed - but you have to pay 2 or 3 x in terms of Price…

I buy products for their "features" - manufacturing location is way way way down on the list in terms of purchasing considerations.

 

[69Mach390]

Just a question I would be interested in from our US members.

Do many people in the US prefer to buy Tesla because they are an American company (national loyalty)?

I don’t know many people anymore with that kind of “buy American” mantra when it comes to cars.

My Grandparents (WWII vets, would be over 100 now if they were alive) only bought American cars.

If it’s an American brand AND built in America, it’s a “feel good positive” thing, but rarely the deciding factor for buying a car.

I do know a lot of people who are “brand loyal,” but it more seems because they’ve had a good experience with that brand/model over the years.

IE they only buy Ford or only buy Honda or Toyota etc.

 

[jk981]

Ironically Honda is probably more American than a lot of the “American” brands. Honda builds a lot of their US market cars in Ohio while I believe it was GM that moved production to Mexico.

At the end of the day, the Tesla software suite is one of the (if not the) best on the market. Decent in a model S but represents a substantial value in a cheaper 3 or Y.

 

[Tooney]

After dealer closures, Porsche protects buyers with deposit plan in China

Empty showrooms and customer deposits tied up at Porsche dealerships in central and southwestern China have left buyers facing delivery and registration delays. Porsche China is taking steps to manage the fallout from recent dealer suspensions.

At the end of December 2025, the Zhengzhou Zhongyuan and Guiyang Mengguan Porsche Centres ceased operations. Vehicles and equipment were reportedly removed, and hundreds of customers were affected by unresolved deposits and missing vehicle conformity documents, according to multiple local reports.

Some customers who have received vehicles but have not obtained the required conformity certificates are encountering registration obstacles. Others who paid deposits have not yet received their cars. Staff at the affected dealerships also reported unpaid wages ranging from tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of yuan.

In response to the disruptions, Porsche China said on January 13 that it has been leading communications with relevant credit banks. The company will provide a customer rights protection plan as soon as possible, based on the results of those consultations, as reported by IT-home.

Porsche China said the plan will safeguard the legitimate rights of genuine contract customers who have paid deposits but not taken delivery. Customers whose after-sales services were affected may still access official maintenance packages and original factory warranty services at other authorized Porsche Centres. The company attributed the disruptions to liquidity problems at the dealer group and said it will pay attention to customers’ actual difficulties.

 

[chun]

After dealer closures, Porsche protects buyers with deposit plan in China

Empty showrooms and customer deposits tied up at Porsche dealerships in central and southwestern China have left buyers facing delivery and registration delays. Porsche China is taking steps to manage the fallout from recent dealer suspensions.

At the end of December 2025, the Zhengzhou Zhongyuan and Guiyang Mengguan Porsche Centres ceased operations. Vehicles and equipment were reportedly removed, and hundreds of customers were affected by unresolved deposits and missing vehicle conformity documents, according to multiple local reports.

Some customers who have received vehicles but have not obtained the required conformity certificates are encountering registration obstacles. Others who paid deposits have not yet received their cars. Staff at the affected dealerships also reported unpaid wages ranging from tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of yuan.

In response to the disruptions, Porsche China said on January 13 that it has been leading communications with relevant credit banks. The company will provide a customer rights protection plan as soon as possible, based on the results of those consultations, as reported by IT-home.

Porsche China said the plan will safeguard the legitimate rights of genuine contract customers who have paid deposits but not taken delivery. Customers whose after-sales services were affected may still access official maintenance packages and original factory warranty services at other authorized Porsche Centres. The company attributed the disruptions to liquidity problems at the dealer group and said it will pay attention to customers’ actual difficulties.

Doesn't it scream premium experience?

But hey, surely, they're losing customers because the market is difficult. Imagine customers that paid a deposit expecting cars in exchange? The audacity /s

90% of these people, capable of affording a Porsche, will never touch a porsche in their lifetime again after this sort of experience.
And it adds up on tops of all the other shit experiences Porsche offers. And that's on top of the "premium experience" of 5-9 in-service recalls per year. I wonder how they'll handle recalls in china, since they have no services anymore?

These people looks so happy to pay the porsche premium tax for the "premium" experience The only non premium part is clearly the price, they should have charged Ferrari money for this experience /s

 

[Tooney]

China’s $28K Taycan Clone Is Coming Whether Porsche Likes It Or Not

SAIC’s Z7 looks nearly identical to a Taycan, likely costs a fraction of it, and now it has a wagon version already testing in China.

No specifications for the Z7 have been released, so it remains to be seen how HIMA plans to position the vehicle. It could go head-to-head with Xiaomi’s SU7 in terms of performance, or it may aim for a higher price point, with a more premium market in mind.

Whatever the case may be, the Z7 will almost certainly undercut the Porsche Taycan in price. The Taycan starts at around 1 million yuan, or more than $140,000. In contrast, the Xiaomi SU7 starts at just 215,900 yuan, roughly $30,000. Expect the Z7 to land somewhere in that range, offering the Taycan’s silhouette at a fraction of the cost.

 

[smoothound]

We'll be spoilt for choice!! .... Zeekr 7GT £50K in top spec.. 500+miles and 3.3 to 62

https://www.carwow.co.uk/news/10107/zeekr-7gt-revealed-styling-specs-range-pricing#gref

 

[whitex]

We'll be spoilt for choice!! .... Zeekr 7GT £50K in top spec.. 500+miles and 3.3 to 62

https://www.carwow.co.uk/news/10107/zeekr-7gt-revealed-styling-specs-range-pricing#gref

I don't know why, but this car looks to me like a cross of Taycan and Lucid Air .

 

[chun]

I don't know why, but this car looks to me like a cross of Taycan and Lucid Air .

Let's hope they take the interior space/interior packaging from lucid, since its still the best on the market.
It still boggles my mind that the taycan has less interior space than a panamera...

 

[mystermykee]

Just a general opinion from someone in a blue state.

The people who put Tesla on the map were mostly people who wanted to see EV thrive

I think some of it also had to do with status. It was new with the latest and greatest tech at the time. With the base Model S starting at 60k back in 2012, that's almost 80k in today's dollars. Some people sure were snooty.

Geez, I remember like it was yesterday. "Oh you drive a Tezzzla?!" Not me of course. Never has been and never will be will be on my radar, even with it being an American car company.

I once tried talking my parents out of taking delivery of their brand new pre DOGE Trump Model X when there was waitlist at the time. Long story short. They ended up selling after three months.

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