[opinion] - hmmm…VW/Audi/Porsche _IS_ in trouble… [⚠️ ADMIN WARNING: NO INSULTING / POLITICALLY CHARGED POSTING]

[69Mach390]

This is likely good news for Porsche. Wonder what the over / under is on the new roadster.

https://www.cnbc.com/2026/01/28/tesla-ending-model-s-x-production.html

I don’t know that it really matters. Tesla won’t even tell you how few X and S sold in recent years as the numbers were so bad they lump them together.

They got a bit long in the tooth. As cool as it is to think about 1000 hp sedans and SUVs, they aren’t particularly popular nor practical.

Sponsored

 

[D00notD00d]

How can a traditional car manufacturer like VW (which we consider to be lagging behind and which many Tesla fans thought was doomed to failure) sell more cars than the electric car pioneer and former number one in the EU? To draw the right conclusions, we definitely need a broader perspective than just looking at the products itself.

The ketamine king (allegedly) madman 32% owner of Tesla is their public face. His venture into politics and handling of Twitter/X ownership makes purchase of their EV products a big no-no.
Together Tesla’s corporate investors have a larger shareholding. Someday they may depose him as CEO.
Tesla’s EV development was a decade ahead of European manufacturers. Chinese manufacturers quickly caught up. Tesla’s manufacturing in China contributed to that.

 

[D00notD00d]

That is going to be Porsche’s crossroad, e.g. how many stick or how many bail as their pricing vs rewards diverges.

After almost 8 enjoyable years of Cayenne ownership I’ve just swapped it for a Range Rover Sport. Dynamically, the suspension is not as good, and the controls are less logical and more screen based, but I didn’t want a 2nd EV (especially not a Porsche one). The ICE Cayenne product hasn’t been developed in the last 7 years other than the cosmetic addition of a rear light bar and new dash. That plus uncompetitive pricing and some unreliable and untrustworthy dealers prompted a switch away from Porsche. Cars priced at one third of the price of a new Cayenne have a superior standard equipment spec. Likewise competitors such as Range Rover and BMW. The new X5 could be interesting.

 

[69Mach390]

Cars priced at one third of the price of a new Cayenne have a superior standard equipment spec.

Sure, but do those cars let you customize the color of your seatbelt?

 

[Scandinavian]

How can a traditional car manufacturer like VW (which we consider to be lagging behind and which many Tesla fans thought was doomed to failure) sell more cars than the electric car pioneer and former number one in the EU? To draw the right conclusions, we definitely need a broader perspective than just looking at the products itself. At least you can say that it's certainly not all doom and gloom.

I think there are more reasons, than just the antics of Elon Musk. His outburst on X and tone deaf to his Grok, is likely the main reason.

Secondly the models they are selling now are a bit long in the tooth. They have improved the quality, suspensions etc a lot compare to the initial releases. But the design is outdated and boring now. And then all the issues with display less, stalkless steering wheels is not what is wanted in Europe. Not to mention the monstrosity of the Cybertruck! (Cyberyuk).

Tesla were the pioneers and are still probably the most efficient cars in driving, but their charging performance for long rod trips is substandard now. Far too slow.

 

[SoccerMan94043]

This is behind a WSJ paywall, but this breaks it... please delete if that is against the rules here:

https://archive.is/20260130195822/h...ech/chinese-ev-test-drive-xiaomi-su7-c3e59282

 

[chun]

This is behind a WSJ paywall, but this breaks it... please delete if that is against the rules here:

https://archive.is/20260130195822/h...ech/chinese-ev-test-drive-xiaomi-su7-c3e59282

The article seems to copy point for point the already famous video from MKBHD:


And it seems to be exact same car being reviewed also

But I think the sentiment after the video/article of people that keep themselves informed is reflected perfectly by this comment:

 

[69Mach390]

This is behind a WSJ paywall, but this breaks it... please delete if that is against the rules here:

https://archive.is/20260130195822/h...ech/chinese-ev-test-drive-xiaomi-su7-c3e59282

If that’s the same article I saw today it was about someone who drove their friends car and it was better than their Mach E for cheaper.

That car is definitely a relative value**

**Except you can’t buy it for that price unless you live in China. So that price is irrelevant.

Might as well talk about how gas in Iran only costs $0.11/gallon.

If I can’t buy it for that price, it doesn’t matter to me.

If that car ever made it here without crazy tariffs, it wouldn’t be $40k. Probably more like $70k. Definitely a good Tesla competitor either way. Very comparable to a Model 3 performance.

 

[Sar]

Just a video i saw recently, and I thought it's an interesting comparison in terms of approach to marketing

Which one do you guys think is more likely to make a kid / teenager dream of getting their car?




Unless a youth serum gets invented soon, Porsche's client base will continue to shrink with marketing aimed only at art directors in their 70s that would much rather buy a Ferrari than a Porsche. to store in their garage

This thread has been moving fast, so I'm a bit late in responding to this, but I can't resist.

That Porsche video almost made my eyes roll into the back of my head. All that drama over turning their logo silver. As a first-time Porsche owner (with no history of attachment to their logo) - you can rip this beautiful gold logo out of my dead, cold hands.

But the second video - 11 minutes of wheels screeching has zero appeal to me. The novelty greatly wore off before the end. But my real comment on this video is: what an absolutely INSANE decision to include the TOKYO drift song, of all songs, and bleep out "Tokyo" because... apparently it's a banned word? Just the most unhinged behavior I've ever seen.

I am so appalled by both of these videos. I'm going to bed.

 

[Tooney]

Porsche Could Quit EVs In China

The real issue stems from an inability to fend off Chinese competition in the EV segment. Xiaomi and others sell much cheaper electric cars, some of which boast more power than a Taycan or a Macan. Zuffenhausen is fully aware of the problem, and rather than retaliating with price cuts or new, more affordable models, it might just call it quits.

Speaking at Auto Shanghai 2025, Porsche CEO Oliver Blume admitted the company might stop selling EVs in China in the foreseeable future: “We will see in the next two to three years whether Porsche exists as an electric brand here.” The head honcho, who also runs the Volkswagen Group, acknowledged that Porsche’s electric vehicle sales in China are “relatively low,” as cited by Automotive News.

The top brass made it crystal clear that Porsche has no intention of chasing volume and will maintain prices at a level “appropriate for Porsche.” Consequently, the new Cayenne EV, coming later this year, won't be cheap, and neither will the electric 718 successor due to arrive after the big SUV.

Blume doesn’t view Xiaomi, with its 1,548-horsepower SU7 Ultra, as a direct competitor, arguing that it’s a cheaper EV that can’t match the “driving ability” of a Porsche. Xiaomi’s Taycan fighter costs 529,900 yuan (nearly $73,000) in China, while a base 402-hp Taycan starts at a much steeper 918,000 yuan ($126,000).

 

[69Mach390]

Porsche Could Quit EVs In China

The real issue stems from an inability to fend off Chinese competition in the EV segment. Xiaomi and others sell much cheaper electric cars, some of which boast more power than a Taycan or a Macan. Zuffenhausen is fully aware of the problem, and rather than retaliating with price cuts or new, more affordable models, it might just call it quits.

Speaking at Auto Shanghai 2025, Porsche CEO Oliver Blume admitted the company might stop selling EVs in China in the foreseeable future: “We will see in the next two to three years whether Porsche exists as an electric brand here.” The head honcho, who also runs the Volkswagen Group, acknowledged that Porsche’s electric vehicle sales in China are “relatively low,” as cited by Automotive News.

The top brass made it crystal clear that Porsche has no intention of chasing volume and will maintain prices at a level “appropriate for Porsche.” Consequently, the new Cayenne EV, coming later this year, won't be cheap, and neither will the electric 718 successor due to arrive after the big SUV.

Blume doesn’t view Xiaomi, with its 1,548-horsepower SU7 Ultra, as a direct competitor, arguing that it’s a cheaper EV that can’t match the “driving ability” of a Porsche. Xiaomi’s Taycan fighter costs 529,900 yuan (nearly $73,000) in China, while a base 402-hp Taycan starts at a much steeper 918,000 yuan ($126,000).

It’s not just that they don’t want to chase those prices in China…..

They literally can’t. Not and stay in business.

If they built all their cars in China using slave labor, cheaper materials and partnered with China to take advantage of currency manipulation, sure, they could compete on price. But only inside China and none of that is realistic.

Ford tried it with the Mach E built in China, but it’s still not selling that well. I don’t think it would be a winning strategy for Porsche.

 

[Der-Schwabe]

If that’s the same article I saw today it was about someone who drove their friends car and it was better than their Mach E for cheaper.

That car is definitely a relative value**

**Except you can’t buy it for that price unless you live in China. So that price is irrelevant.

Might as well talk about how gas in Iran only costs $0.11/gallon.

If I can’t buy it for that price, it doesn’t matter to me.

If that car ever made it here without crazy tariffs, it wouldn’t be $40k. Probably more like $70k. Definitely a good Tesla competitor either way. Very comparable to a Model 3 performance.

One needs to take the reports of the Xiaomi SU7 Ultra (that set the Nuerburgring record lap time) with a huge pinch of salt. Watch this Carwow video from last September and it struggled severly against a Tesla Model S Plaid and overheated and also note the poor breaking performance:



Moreover, this is also reflected in the more recent German Youtube video from Mid-November where the this pure BEV Youtube channel (this presenter owns a FL Taycan Turbo S ST) experienced the same overheating issues with a Xiaomi SU7 Ultra during repeated launches and mentions that the preconditioning of the battery was needed before a launch (unlike on a Taycan). He only achieved ~ 3 seconds from 0 to 62 mph on summer tires and was beat by his Taycan Turbo S on winter tires (around the 33 minute mark). He also mentions the poor turn-in that had been observed by other testers in Germany. I am afraid the video is in German.



So you get what you pay for.

 

[chun]

One needs to take the reports of the Xiaomi SU7 Ultra (that set the Nuerburgring record lap time) with a huge pinch of salt. Watch this Carwow video from last September and it struggled severly against a Tesla Model S Plaid and overheated and also note the poor breaking performance:



Moreover, this is also reflected in the more recent German Youtube video from Mid-November where the this pure BEV Youtube channel (this presenter owns a FL Taycan Turbo S ST) experienced the same overheating issues with a Xiaomi SU7 Ultra during repeated launches and mentions that the preconditioning of the battery was needed before a launch (unlike on a Taycan). He only achieved ~ 3 seconds from 0 to 62 mph on summer tires and was beat by his Taycan Turbo S on winter tires (around the 33 minute mark). He also mentions the poor turn-in that had been observed by other testers in Germany. I am afraid the video is in German.



So you get what you pay for.

Yes, the totally relevant scenario of launching the car 5-6 times in a row.
Every day scenario for many; hence why the pinch of salt is so HUGE.

Neither of the videos has the Xiaomi with the track package, which unlocks the full 1548PS from factory. Otherwise, Xiaomi limits the power until you take a test - decision they took after people couldn't handle that power/their desire to put that power down on public roads.



The facelift is also released since January, which addresses the thermal issues observed with the old battery chemistry and old motors.

So they still seem to be moving at 2-3x the development speed of porsche.

I think at 1/3 of the taycan price, you indeed get what you pay for, a daily car that's better than the taycan, and a track car that competes with porsche - going by results alone, they beat porsche.

 

[Der-Schwabe]

Yes, the totally relevant scenario of launching the car 5-6 times in a row.
Every day scenario for many; hence why the pinch of salt is so HUGE.

Neither of the videos has the Xiaomi with the track package, which unlocks the full 1548PS from factory. Otherwise, Xiaomi limits the power until you take a test - decision they took after people couldn't handle that power/their desire to put that power down on public roads.



The facelift is also released since January, which addresses the thermal issues observed with the old battery chemistry and old motors.

So they still seem to be moving at 2-3x the development speed of porsche.

I think at 1/3 of the taycan price, you indeed get what you pay for, a daily car that's better than the taycan, and a track car that competes with porsche - going by results alone, they beat porsche.

Well, on the one hand I would agree that not every owner will want to launch the Xiaomi SU7 Ultra 4 or 5 times on the 1/4 mile but it stands to reason that if Xiaomi is offering a vehicle with a 1,500+ HP vehicle as a headline performance figure and with a record Nuerburgring lap time on top of that, you may just wish to perform such a test more than just once if you plump for the top of the range model rather than the 'cooking' SU7 Max. Has the preconditioning of the battery that was needed with the tested vehicles also been solved with the "thermal issues observed with the old battery chemistry and old motors"? Neither of these are seen on the Taycan but you could argue that you'll pay a 'huge' premium for this, if you were to select the Taycan in terms of repeatable launch performance.

 

[chun]

Well, on the one hand I would agree that not every owner will want to launch the Xiaomi SU7 Ultra 4 or 5 times on the 1/4 mile but it stands to reason that if Xiaomi is offering a vehicle with a 1,500+ HP vehicle as a headline performance figure and with a record Nuerburgring record lap time on top of that, you may just wish to perform such a test more than just once if you plump for the top of the range model rather than the 'cooking' SU7 Max. Has the preconditioning of the battery that was needed with the tested vehicles also been solved with the "thermal issues observed with the old battery chemistry and old motors"? Neither of these are seen on the Taycan but you could argue that you'll pay a 'huge' premium for this, if you were to select the Taycan in terms of repeatable launch performance.

No public testing of the new battery yet, but according to them, it is solved. New motor, new much more performant battery.

Taycan performance also deteriorates significantly with battery temperature and battery percentage, at least on the j1.1; it just that porsche doesn’t tell you on the screen in big letters that it does, unlike the Xiaomi.

For j1.2 we don’t have precise numbers yet, but you won’t notice significant impact on performance as soon as on j1.1.

On j1.1 you start losing performance around 70% battery, and anything above 45 degrees Celsius.

For both Taycan and Xiaomi, in terms of track performance, battery heat management is not as important as the breaks overheating. The breaks on both overheat before the battery does

Sponsored