GTS Ride Quality with or without Active Ride

[SoccerMan94043]

OK, I missed my build slot as I'm still prevaricating over colours and options :-(

I've since managed a test drive in a Gen-2 CT 4S with 21-inch CT wheels. This was quite impressive; the steering was better than on the first-gen 4S I originally drove - but didn't seem quite as sharp as a GTS with identical tyres. That second GTS also didn't feel quite as sharp as the first GTS I tried - I think the only difference was that the first GTS had different tyres.

How much difference would these tyres make to the steering?

• CT 4S: Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 5
• GTS 1 of 2: Pirelli P-Zero R Elect
• GTS 2 of 2: Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 5

All cars had same-size wheels (Front: 9.5J x 21 ET60; Rear: 11.5J x 21 ET66).
Thanks!

The PZero Rs are a bit softer (they sit between the P Zero and the Trofeo track tire) and likely that GTS had active ride as well as rear axel steering (that all comes in the Dynamic package). It's worth double checking what had what and just configure yours based on the ride you liked best.

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[dcp10]

Were the 2 GTS’s you drove J1.2? Did they both have Active ride? On the configurator if you tick the dynamic package you get performance summer tyres which it appears are the Pirelli R as opposed to either Goodyear F1 or PZero. I guess the R tyre is going to feel more sharp, if this is what you’re referring to?

Thanks, @Beattie. Sorry, I should have clarified more in my original post:-

GTS 1 of 2: J1.2
• Active Ride
• Rear-Axle Steering
• Torque Vectoring
• 21-inch RS Spyder wheels
• Dynamics Pack: Summer Performance tyres (Pirelli P-Zero R Elect)
Sublime steering feel, albeit slightly too-firm ride

GTS 2 of 2: also J1.2
• Rear-Axle Steering
• Torque Vectoring
• 21-inch RS Spyder wheels
• "Regular" tyres (i.e., not Summer, not Summer Performance).
Steering not as sharp as GTS 1; ride seems fine.

Cross Turismo 4S: also J1.2
• Rear-Axle Steering
• (no torque vectoring)
• 21-inch Cross Turismo wheels
• "Regular" tyres
Steering not quite as sharp as GTS #2 - or was I imaging it? Not a huge amount in. Ride seems ok - not that much different to the GTS #2, frankly.

So comparing the three cars: all were J1.2 shod with the same dimension wheels. However, only the first car had the "Active Ride" and the "Dynamics Package".

Maybe the stiffer sidewall of the "R" tyre is giving the steering sharpness, and/or is it the Active Ride?

 

[dcp10]

I guess what I'm driving at here is whether I can replicate the sharp steering and handling of my first J1.2 GTS with a high-spec 4S:-

• Active Ride
• Rear-Axle Steering
• Torque Vectoring
• 21-inch Summer tyres (worth going for the "Dynamic Pack" or is this too much of a ride compromise?).

It's not clear, from the Porsche documentation and dealer feedback, how much "secret sauce" the GTS gives versus the 4S (apart from the badges, interior and more power). Sorry if I seem to keep going around in circles here!

 

[d00d]

If you're ordering this, I would think PAR would be part of any build.
The graphic from Porsche that mpaulus007 posted shows very little difference between GTS and other trims, it's then essentially for the Race-Tex.
No need for Race-Tex, then go for a 4S and 21" summer tires (Dynamic Pack not available), drive in Sport or better.

 

[dcp10]

The graphic from Porsche that mpaulus007 posted shows very little difference between GTS and other trims, it's then essentially for the Race-Tex

That's helpful, thanks. Anyone know what "Nicken", "Wanken" (no sniggering at the back please) and Schütteln mean please?

Google translate isn't very helpful here…

nicken = "nod"
wanken = "wavering"
aufbauruhe = "rest period" ?!
einzelhindernisse = "individual obstacles"
schuttlen = "shake"

 

[RED!]

I think you’re suggesting that relativity small differences are hard to notice. I think there’s a tipping point for different setups. Those differences can be small and yet extremely noticeable in comparison.

I found the GTS handling night and day from a 4s, especially with the 18 way seats & 21s

 

[d00d]

Right, but drive both with 18-way and 21" same tires, is there then much of a difference that drive mode doesn't equalize?

For English, compare to what Boss Hogg posted.

 

[d00d]

Forgot to mention the paddle wheel option for the GTS, but '27 may be different.

 

[RED!]

Right, but drive both with 18-way and 21" same tires, is there then much of a difference that drive mode doesn't equalize?

For English, compare to what Boss Hogg posted.

This is a great indication of feel, imo.
The “isolation” measure feels to me like the diffeeence between a sports car and a luxury sedan.
I’ve read/watched people talking about how the ride is better than an S-Class. Again, it’s a matter of taste, but I’m looking for an estate wagon that feels like a two seater (a shooting brake) not a sedan that handles well. This is where this thread gets into trouble - perspective on this drives all other variables

 

[SoccerMan94043]

If you're ordering this, I would think PAR would be part of any build.
The graphic from Porsche that mpaulus007 posted shows very little difference between GTS and other trims, it's then essentially for the Race-Tex.
No need for Race-Tex, then go for a 4S and 21" summer tires (Dynamic Pack not available), drive in Sport or better.

There is no scale on these Porsche charts, so no way to really know how much difference there is between the GTS tuning and the rest :\

 

[SoccerMan94043]

I guess what I'm driving at here is whether I can replicate the sharp steering and handling of my first J1.2 GTS with a high-spec 4S:-

• Active Ride
• Rear-Axle Steering
• Torque Vectoring
• 21-inch Summer tyres (worth going for the "Dynamic Pack" or is this too much of a ride compromise?).

It's not clear, from the Porsche documentation and dealer feedback, how much "secret sauce" the GTS gives versus the 4S (apart from the badges, interior and more power). Sorry if I seem to keep going around in circles here!

Based on what I've read, I don't think PAR has that much impact on the steering feel, but I've not logged many non-PAR hours driving a Taycan.

I would think tires and wheels are your biggest factor there. If I were you I'd do the 4S with all the trimmings. especially if you thought the first GTS's ride was too firm and the mode was in Normal.

 

[prj]

I found the GTS handling night and day from a 4s, especially with the 18 way seats & 21s

You're comparing J1.1.
PAR is a completely different beast. Driving my J1.2 CT with PAR vs J1.1 GTS back to back - the GTS was just seemingly harsh for no reason. PAR is black magic sorcery.
J1.1 CT on the other hand there is no comparison - the GTS is much tighter in the corners.

 

[prj]

I guess what I'm driving at here is whether I can replicate the sharp steering and handling of my first J1.2 GTS with a high-spec 4S:-

• Active Ride
• Rear-Axle Steering
• Torque Vectoring
• 21-inch Summer tyres (worth going for the "Dynamic Pack" or is this too much of a ride compromise?).

It's not clear, from the Porsche documentation and dealer feedback, how much "secret sauce" the GTS gives versus the 4S (apart from the badges, interior and more power). Sorry if I seem to keep going around in circles here!

The difference is much less with PAR. Without PAR there is more difference.
PAR with it's virtual infinite antirollbars just negates all the need for having stiff ARB's and making all the bumps upset the car.
The J1.2 CT4 with PAR handles much better than any J1.1 GTS while being twice as comfortable.

If you drove a standard CT and then compare that to a GTS with PAR, of course the car with PAR will be far superior. But you're doing an apples to oranges comparison.

That said, for a more sporty setup car you want the Sedan or the ST. The CT with it's extra ride height and suspension travel is the most compliant of the bunch, and while PAR completely eliminates all the leaning and squatting, which normally come with the softer suspension, if you enjoy more feedback (and more NVH) from the road, then I wouldn't get a CT.

That said, unless taking it to the track and chasing numbers, a CT with PAR will most likely have a much higher limit than you will be comfortable pushing.
The benefit of the CT4 is that you can already get PAR on the base model, so the CT4 is the cheapest by far and also the most practical.
However, really up to you if you like the look or not, we have very divided opinions about that here.

 

[Fun TC Driving]

For the first time, I went to the C&D test linked in post # 135. Below was their conclusion about a Taycan Taycan Turbo S with PAR. The very last sentence was their key takeaway.

The latest Porsche Taycan and Panamera E-Hybrid have an optional active suspension, one of only two such systems on the market today, so we were eager to sink our accelerometers into it to see what magic it enables. In short, the system can keep the body eerily flat. Over the test surface with large lumps, it feels like the body moves less than half as much as the next-best vehicle. Also, on one of our favorite pockmarked two-lane roads, the Taycan feels pulled taut to the road but with no ride penalty as the wheels and tires are frantically working away. But physics can't be defied, and on mostly smooth roads, the Taycan's suspension bangs loudly over sharp impacts and highway seams. Our takeaway: The worse the road, the better the Taycan feels.

 

[RED!]

For me, I want it to feel a little more raw, sportscar like. The PASM keeps the car flat enough that it feels like a train. Body roll isn’t a “problem” it’s a signal that tells you about your grip. In my race car, I love the feeling of the car “taking a set” and then throttling to the point I’m flat (on the gas pedal) and carving the car through a corner. The best is Turn 2 on Mosport where you enter the corner at the first apex and by the time you’re lined up for the second apex you’re flat, and have dropped about 30-40 feet of elevation. The gravity induced downforce, plus the set of the suspension (which is best a little softer than most Porsche club guys are willing to do) will give you a tremendous carving feeling. I leave that turn around 120-130 mph having hit the second apex around 90-100. The track record was McNish in an Audi LMS car where he didn’t even lift through the entire turn.

All that to say, there is such thing as too perfect - that’s when there’s no feedback, the car just breaks loose and you’re a passenger holding a steering wheel.

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