Tesla FSD Safety Stats Misleading

[Vercingetorix]

Mercedes level 3 is limited to <40 mph. Not much to brag about. Also there doesn't seem to be much difference between a level 2 and level 3.

https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/2022-05/Level-of-Automation-052522-tag.pdf

base on this, Tesla's system really sounds more like level 3 vs level 2.

Mercedes has it. Tesla does not. It is SAE level 3 and Tesla does not have it.

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[AutoX]

Mercedes has it. Tesla does not. It is SAE level 3 and Tesla does not have it.

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/...-4-autonomy-under-a-new-texas-law-270718.html

Tesla robotaxi fleet use the same sensors and basically the same software as the cars that are sold to consumers. They have begun to drive around without a safety driver. I would say that this is more impressive than Mercedes level 3. Mercedes does not boast about it, because in the real world, being limited to 40mph is a non starter.

 

[Vercingetorix]

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/...-4-autonomy-under-a-new-texas-law-270718.html

Tesla robotaxi fleet use the same sensors and basically the same software as the cars that are sold to consumers. They have begun to drive around without a safety driver. I would say that this is more impressive than Mercedes level 3. Mercedes does not boast about it, because in the real world, being limited to 40mph is a non starter.

You are confusing what I as consumer can buy, a Level 3 Mercedes, vs pie in the sky Tesla trying to show off at unlimited expense. Mercedes Level 3 can go 95kph in Germany.

 

[snstevens]

You are confusing what I as consumer can buy, a Level 3 Mercedes, vs pie in the sky Tesla trying to show off at unlimited expense. Mercedes Level 3 can go 95kph in Germany.

Didn't know that. Can you share any videos?

 

[Vercingetorix]

W

Didn't know that. Can you share any videos?

I trust Mercedes. Man child is more about headlines than substance.

 

[whitex]

W



I trust Mercedes. Man child is more about headlines than substance.

"No more Tetris" and your car needs your attention if you play it on your infotainment, but Tetris still there if you're playing on your phone, or a laptop, or a Nintendo Switch.

According to this video, this Level 3 is single lane keeping only (no automatic lane changes), restricted to lower speeds, no off-highway navigation (exits, turns, traffic signals), and requires take over from the driver within some short time (video never said how long) so you might have a problem if you move the seat backwards to put a laptop on your lap.

I am also curious how you prove to a police offer who pulled you over for playing games on your phone while driving, that the Level 3 was in fact enabled. Do the Police have some special tool to check Level 3 engagement history, or does the car flash some lights outside while Level 3 is engaged to indicate to everyone around?

 

[AutoX]

W



I trust Mercedes. Man child is more about headlines than substance.

That video is not very impressive. Many other car manufactures can do that and more. Also to be limited to 95kph is a non starter in the US. I'm not sure how highways operate in Europe, but the avg speed on most Hwys in the US is well north of 70mph/112 kph. You'll be a hazard if you are traveling at 95kph. Mercedes systems is a glorified lane keep assist, limited to the right lane without the ability to change lanes, take exits, etc.

Tesla's system is approved in many countries in Europe and is expanding every week. So I guess the regulators seems to be ok with it.

I think you're letting your hatred for Elon cloud an objective evaluation of Tesla's FSD tech.

 

[FlyingPoint]

That video is not very impressive. Many other car manufactures can do that and more. Also to be limited to 95kph is a non starter in the US. I'm not sure how highways operate in Europe, but the avg speed on most Hwys in the US is well north of 70mph/112 kph. You'll be a hazard if you are traveling at 95kph. Mercedes systems is a glorified lane keep assist, limited to the right lane without the ability to change lanes, take exits, etc.

Tesla's system is approved in many countries in Europe and is expanding every week. So I guess the regulators seems to be ok with it.

I think you're letting your hatred for Elon cloud an objective evaluation of Tesla's FSD tech.

I agree with each and every point in your post. What I find amazing is that MB was highlighted. The BMW system is quite capable, not up to Teslas FSD but capable for what it is.

 

[AutoX]

The funny thing about this article is that it suggest that Tesla FSD is “only” 3 times less likely to get into an airbag deploying accident. Yes, it’s not 10x as Tesla claims but still 3x less compare to the avg driver. That’s a pretty good achievement and will only get better with time.

 

[69Mach390]

The funny thing about this article is that it suggest that Tesla FSD is “only” 3 times less likely to get into an airbag deploying accident. Yes, it’s not 10x as Tesla claims but still 3x less compare to the avg driver. That’s a pretty good achievement and will only get better with time.

Fun with statistics……

10x and 3x aren’t even remotely close to each other.

Bottom line? They flat out lied and distorted the data.

3x is fantastic. But I don’t trust people who lie. Especially when they lie about their statistics.

 

[whitex]

Fun with statistics……

10x and 3x aren’t even remotely close to each other.

Bottom line? They flat out lied and distorted the data.

3x is fantastic. But I don’t trust people who lie. Especially when they lie about their statistics.

Tesla has a history of deception by relying on people not parsing their statements literally. For example (actual example from Tesla's past), Tesla publishes "Motor power", then people realize they are missing a 50% power boost to reach that. Tesla placates people saying more power is coming via OTA. Then people realize that will never come because there is pyro fuse in the battery that would blow if this much power was drawn from the battery. So Tesla gets sued, but eventually wins by arguing that "the motors are capable, just not when connected to this car with that battery, so we didn't lie". They've done this kind of thing with many things, and got better at it over time. I suspect they play around with accidents on AutoPilot as well, for example if you happen to touch the brake pedal 0.1s prior to airbag deployment, AutoPilot will disengage, so they get to say without lying that the airbag deployment did not happen while driving on AutoPilot. Similar story if AutoPilot disengages by itself because it lost control - still doesn't count as accident on AutoPilot because it's Level 2, meaning driver has to be able to take over with zero notice.

So no, don't trust the media, read the actual statements from Tesla, then interpret them in the most literal, most minimalistic, most beneficial to Tesla way possible.

 

[Zcd1]

Add me to the list of people who find the latest version of FSD with HW4 to be incredibly capable, and FAR FAR better than previous versions.
I wouldn’t have (and didn’t) purchase and of the previous versions, but did buy this latest version after a month-long subscription demonstrated its capabilities. (purchased for $2K the day before the purchase option was discontinued and FSD became subscription only)

 

[FlyingPoint]

I don't understand what this Reuter's investigation proves. Is it that Tesla and Musk "puff" just about everything Tesla? Unless one has been living under a rock for over 13 years, this is irrefutable. The examples of puffing abound in unlimted quantity.

Having said this, the article is in and of itself flawed for one simple reason. It evaluates the fleets statistics, not the current HW4. I don't dispute its accuracy, I question its relevance.
IMV, it similiar to comparing the Blackberry to the iPhone 17 Pro Max. They are not comparable. HW4 computing capacity versus the older HW3 is not comparable. I personally have seen how this HW4 learns and improves in just one year of HW4 ownership and thousands of challenging FSD miles driven.

As for the other FSD offering OEM's, they are not in the same league, with the exception of Waymo.

 

[AutoX]

FSD like EVs is one of those things you have to experience first hand.

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