177 KM Range

[gtm]

... My wife did have it back to Porsche for this issue, but they said nothing was wrong.

Unfortunately the dealer is going to say there is nothing wrong right up until your get the red dash warning and your car dies. You need to arm yourself with some information. Invest in an OBD dongle and Car Scanner. You will see the battery State of Health (SoH). The displayed SoH may differ from that which the dealer gets if they do the two day test but it's been shown to be very close. The battery SoH should be above 90% for a 2023 car. Check your cell voltages (see @Scandinavian's screen shots above). Under a 20% SoC you might see 10 to 20 millivolt difference high cell to low cell. This seems to be normal at a low SoC. Charge up to 90% and the difference should drop to 4 to 6 millivolts on a healthy battery. Based on your first post: 86.7 kWh usable capacity on a new battery. 94% SoH (typical at 10,000 miles in a cold climate). You should have about 81.5 kWh capacity. You used 36%, or 29 kWh to go 25 km. That's nuts leaving from a relatively warm garage.

You need to check some of your battery stats for yourself. It could very well be that your battery is fine and that an assortment of other factors are causing the poor efficiency. But ... based on your figures I would say that there is something not quite right with your car somewhere. Software, a motor with an issue, stuck brake caliper,... You need to get some data out of the car, document a couple of trips, and that way you can approach the dealer better informed and push the issue. .

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[Chas1]

Agreed, we are going to give that a try, but still......................range is off the charts poor

Yes I think it’s too much to expect but it will save Porsche suggesting that preconditioning is the issue. My rwd was showing v poor range when we had freezing temps a week ago, so preconditioned the battery and range did significantly improve so worth a try,

 

[Bobrae99]

This is why I'll sitting on the sidelines for now. I am also in Canada, but on the prairies where winter temps (overnight) can be -35C (-30F). The early adopters around here seem to be physicians, buying all different makes of EVs, but all complaining about the same thing - poor winter range.

Until they find a fix for the cold weather range problem, EVs will be nice highway vehicles for California, but not Alaska (or central Canada). People say you don't need a car with 800 kms (480 miles) of range, but what is range anyway? How does the EPA measure it? It's the same fraud as with ICE vehicles - measured with a granny driving at 30 mph with outside temps at 72F, no rain, no wind, no hills. Who lives in those conditions year round?

I'll put down $180,000 CAD on a Taycan when it can make 600 kms in the dead of winter without a bunch of preconditioning, etc. I'm guessing that is many years away. Until then, most EVs are expensive golf carts that need to be plugged in every night and kept in a heated garage.

 

[greenlizard]

Unfortunately the dealer is going to say there is nothing wrong right up until your get the red dash warning and your car dies. You need to arm yourself with some information. Invest in an OBD dongle and Car Scanner. You will see the battery State of Health (SoH). The displayed SoH may differ from that which the dealer gets if they do the two day test but it's been shown to be very close. The battery SoH should be above 90% for a 2023 car. Check your cell voltages (see @Scandinavian's screen shots above). Under a 20% SoC you might see 10 to 20 millivolt difference high cell to low cell. This seems to be normal at a low SoC. Charge up to 90% and the difference should drop to 4 to 6 millivolts on a healthy battery. Based on your first post: 86.7 kWh usable capacity on a new battery. 94% SoH (typical at 10,000 miles in a cold climate). You should have about 81.5 kWh capacity. You used 36%, or 29 kWh to go 25 km. That's nuts leaving from a relatively warm garage.

You need to check some of your battery stats for yourself. It could very well be that your battery is fine and that an assortment of other factors are causing the poor efficiency. But ... based on your figures I would say that there is something not quite right with your car somewhere. Software, a motor with an issue, stuck brake caliper,... You need to get some data out of the car, document a couple of trips, and that way you can approach the dealer better informed and push the issue. .

I just ordered a bluetooth OBDII reader on Amazon. Will arrive tomorrow. I'll download car scanner. Thanks to everyone for the car scanner recommendations.

 

[andb]

I'll put down $180,000 CAD on a Taycan when it can make 600 kms in the dead of winter without a bunch of preconditioning, etc.

If you're having 600 km trips often then EV is not for you, I drive that much once in 3 months.

 

[Scandinavian]

Yes I think it’s too much to expect but it will save Porsche suggesting that preconditioning is the issue. My rwd was showing v poor range when we had freezing temps a week ago, so preconditioned the battery and range did significantly improve so worth a try,

But the OP had his car in an underground garage with 15C temperature. That is quite ok but preheating would help a bit. And outside temp was -5C.

Not very cold either, so 177 km is not right at all. The consumption for a 25 km drive was close to 100 kWh/100 km (160 kWh/100 mile!) .

Still I wonder what the app or the car displayed in kWh/100 km consumption?

 

[Bobrae99]

If you're having 600 km trips often then EV is not for you, I drive that much once in 3 months.

One day EVs will have that capability or the world will move on to hydrogen powered cars or something else). I think people want to be able to go where they want to go without being limited by an inability to refuel (recharge) when they need to.

I remember driving a diesel 3/4 ton pickup truck in 2004 and hauling an empty horse trailer back to Canada from the US. I was on an interstate hwy at 10:00pm and every exit to a gas station showed regular and premium, but no diesel. I had to overnight at a Holiday Inn near a gas station (with diesel) that wasn't open until the morning. I filled up in the morning and was on my way.

I didn't normally drive that distance with a trailer attached and I wouldn't drive an EV regularly 600 kms either, but that feeling of being without the ability to refill my vehicle so I could keep driving is always at the back of my mind when I look at currently available EVs.

 

[GLM1]

We have a 2023 4S,93kw battery and the Mission E wheels. I know the large wheels are the worst for range, but they look so cool, especially since we had them painted to match the car. Anyway since new, the best range the car has ever shown is 384 km at 100% battery charge. Since it has gotten colder here in Canada and we are only charging to 80% to save the battery, the range is showing only 177 Km consistently. That's less than 2 hours or driving time at highway speeds.

We have switched to Pirelli snows on Porsche 20" Aero wheels, the car is kept in a heated underground garage at around 15 degrees C. Still only 177km of range. We are retired and don't have a routine, so have never preconditioned the battery before using the car. The Porsche App on our phones have not communicated with the car since Nov 8. We have an appointment with Porsche for a software update on the vehicle.

We live in a small town Gananoque, which is roughly 250 km equidistant between 3 major Canadian cities, Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal. In the summer we could drive to any of these without stopping to recharge. This was one of the conditions of buying an EV, that it had the range to go to this cities. This is no longer the case in winter. Our closet cities are Kingston 25 KM and Brockville 40 KM. We can easily go through over 50% of our range just to go grocery shopping and doing some running around. Last week I drove into Kingston with 61% charge, I drove the freeway at 140km/h (It's a Porsche after all ), and was down to 25% charge upon arrival. I took secondary roads and drove like a Granny to get the car home. We shouldn't have range anxiety for local driving, but there it is.

Any ideas why the range is so poor with this car?

 

[Chas1]

I didn't normally drive that distance with a trailer attached and I wouldn't drive an EV regularly 600 kms either, but that feeling of being without the ability to refill my vehicle so I could keep driving is always at the back of my mind when I look at currently available EVs.
[/QUOTE]
This isn’t quite true but nearly anywhere in Europe we already have reasonable charging facilities. We might be occasionally let down but this inconvenience doesn’t outweigh the positives. The charging infrastructure (that I occasionally use) is keeping up with growth in EV’s but it’s still not really a viable proposition to have an ev without adequate home charging. And the Porsche Taycan is a great vehicle. It’s a pleasure to drive in heavy traffic or out in the open road. It is the commensurate all rounder.

 

[GLM1]

I'm sorry to hear that your range is poor it does not make sense. I have a 2023 4SCT and I live in a similar area in the Eastern Township of Quebec temperature has been as low as -7degC, I charge in a garage kept at 12degC to 85% and I get 286Km. If I drive with recuperation on I actually get more than posted. You also have to watch keeping the preheat/precool on while the car is parked as that reduces the range.
I have found that overtime the range has increased, this winter vs last winter.

We have a 2023 4S,93kw battery and the Mission E wheels. I know the large wheels are the worst for range, but they look so cool, especially since we had them painted to match the car. Anyway since new, the best range the car has ever shown is 384 km at 100% battery charge. Since it has gotten colder here in Canada and we are only charging to 80% to save the battery, the range is showing only 177 Km consistently. That's less than 2 hours or driving time at highway speeds.

We have switched to Pirelli snows on Porsche 20" Aero wheels, the car is kept in a heated underground garage at around 15 degrees C. Still only 177km of range. We are retired and don't have a routine, so have never preconditioned the battery before using the car. The Porsche App on our phones have not communicated with the car since Nov 8. We have an appointment with Porsche for a software update on the vehicle.

We live in a small town Gananoque, which is roughly 250 km equidistant between 3 major Canadian cities, Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal. In the summer we could drive to any of these without stopping to recharge. This was one of the conditions of buying an EV, that it had the range to go to this cities. This is no longer the case in winter. Our closet cities are Kingston 25 KM and Brockville 40 KM. We can easily go through over 50% of our range just to go grocery shopping and doing some running around. Last week I drove into Kingston with 61% charge, I drove the freeway at 140km/h (It's a Porsche after all ), and was down to 25% charge upon arrival. I took secondary roads and drove like a Granny to get the car home. We shouldn't have range anxiety for local driving, but there it is.

Any ideas why the range is so poor with this car?

We have a 2023 4S,93kw battery and the Mission E wheels. I know the large wheels are the worst for range, but they look so cool, especially since we had them painted to match the car. Anyway since new, the best range the car has ever shown is 384 km at 100% battery charge. Since it has gotten colder here in Canada and we are only charging to 80% to save the battery, the range is showing only 177 Km consistently. That's less than 2 hours or driving time at highway speeds.

We have switched to Pirelli snows on Porsche 20" Aero wheels, the car is kept in a heated underground garage at around 15 degrees C. Still only 177km of range. We are retired and don't have a routine, so have never preconditioned the battery before using the car. The Porsche App on our phones have not communicated with the car since Nov 8. We have an appointment with Porsche for a software update on the vehicle.

We live in a small town Gananoque, which is roughly 250 km equidistant between 3 major Canadian cities, Toronto, Ottawa and Montreal. In the summer we could drive to any of these without stopping to recharge. This was one of the conditions of buying an EV, that it had the range to go to this cities. This is no longer the case in winter. Our closet cities are Kingston 25 KM and Brockville 40 KM. We can easily go through over 50% of our range just to go grocery shopping and doing some running around. Last week I drove into Kingston with 61% charge, I drove the freeway at 140km/h (It's a Porsche after all ), and was down to 25% charge upon arrival. I took secondary roads and drove like a Granny to get the car home. We shouldn't have range anxiety for local driving, but there it is.

Any ideas why the range is so poor with this car?

 

[greenlizard]

I'm sorry to hear that your range is poor it does not make sense. I have a 2023 4SCT and I live in a similar area in the Eastern Township of Quebec temperature has been as low as -7degC, I charge in a garage kept at 12degC to 85% and I get 286Km. If I drive with recuperation on I actually get more than posted. You also have to watch keeping the preheat/precool on while the car is parked as that reduces the range.
I have found that overtime the range has increased, this winter vs last winter.

Thanks, that is more like we were expecting. There is hope.

 

[greenlizard]

Update: I bought a Nexass Bluetooth OBD dongle, and downloaded Car Scanner.

Car Scanner shows battery health at 93%, cell voltages range from 3.72-4.03., numerous fault codes but nothing stands out.

Battery charged to 80%, but Car Scanner shows battery energy at 44.3kWh. The Battery Performance Plus 93kWh has a useable 83.7kWh of capacity. 80% of 83.7kWh is around 66kWh, not the 44.3kWh I have. I'm closer to 53% SOC, even though both the car and Car Scanner for 80%.

 

[AndiL]

The next time you charge at home, maybe take a picture of the SoC shown in the car at start, then once you reached 80% and also the amount of energy you charged. The later may be provided by the charger you are using. I guess you will only charge half of the expected energy amount. With that data Porsche should be more than willing to analyze and fix whatever is wrong.

 

[AndiL]

Just as an update: the same test works on public charging when taking an image for the start and end SoC and of the charge amount shown by the charger or in the charging receipt.

 

[Johann55]

Car Scanner shows battery health at 93%, cell voltages range from 3.72-4.03., numerous fault codes but nothing stands out.

Cell voltage delta is huge: 0.31 V (310 mV) - you clearly have a bad battery cell. Please post the screenshot with cell voltage in all cells, and another screenshot with SOC in all cells. Example:
https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...ery-soh-performance.12815/page-36#post-278101

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