Diminished value help

[obiwan]

Hello all,

Thanks in advance for any time/help you are able to provide. A month ago someone sideswiped me, resulting in needing to get my front driver side door replaced and rear door repaired (~11k). The work done was great, and Liberty Mutual (the other party's insurance) took care of that, but now they are trying to tell me this accident doesn't qualify for a diminished value claim. I disagree, as I checked and there is an accident on my Carfax now. I'm curious to hear other people's experience here. Also, if anyone is willing to share specifics that I can use as examples/evidence, shoot me a DM.

The story about the accident is kind of wild, but I didn't want to distract from the above. But here it is now. I offered to chauffeur another couple to a dinner with my wife and I (I like driving my car, and didn't feel like drinking). I approached an intersection where there was a left turn only lane and a "right or straight" lane that was green and I wanted to go straight. The person waiting to turn left had an opening, and as I past them they decided to make it a ""trucker left" for no reason, and swung into me. They didn't need to swing wide, and every time I see someone do this it drives me nuts. I didn't mention that the other couple in the car are both lawyers, who immediately sprung into action. The first sent a voice to text to us all naming the license plate number and establishing a timestamp. The other got out their phone and started snapping pics of the other car. I was already 1/2 through the intersection and had to continue, and I saw the other car complete their left and stop 50-100 yards down the road. I U-turned, but was unable to legally get back to the other car (other cars in the way). I saw the other person wait for a little bit and then take off! I tried to catch up, but no luck. When I stopped to examine the damage, another car pull up behind me. I guess they watched the whole thing and followed me. They had a dash cam (though, so did I), and offered to act as yet another witness. I called it in to the cops as a hit and run. Then, 2 days later in the morning I get a call from one of the two passengers. They think they are following the same car again! We confirm the plate and they follow the person into a gym parking lot... that I had just left less than 5 minutes ago. I U-turn and we both confront the driver (who was agitated they were late for a class). They claimed they didn't see who they hit, and thought the other car drove away. Sure. I got name/insurance. I never found out if the police did anything...

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[Tucson_Jim]

If you have already filed a collision claim with your insurance company, give them the information on the other person's insurance. They will subrogate to recover what they spent. If you have not filed with your carrier, contact the other person's company directly.

At this point, gather as much info as you can from the market on cars with accidents vs those without and compare like models and makes. You will come up with an average price differential on similar cars (be as specific as you can on the car but still get a sample of prices in both categories; i.e. 2022 Porsche Taycan... Porsche Taycan... VW-made EV's). Present this to the carrier as your estimate of diminished value and see how they react. This is one of those areas that an insurance adjuster sometimes (usually?) doesn't volunteer when settling your claim. It will only come to the surface in a CarFax or other report when you try to sell the car later. The degree of pushback depends mostly on the insurance company.

 

[69Mach390]

Step 1- find out what the insurance company’s criteria for diminished value claims are.

My guess is that it requires that someone else is proven “at fault” in the accident. IE a police report.

Here are the rules where I live: In Florida, you can file a diminished value claim only if another driver was at fault, you must file within 4 years of the accident, and you cannot recover diminished value from your own insurance policy.

 

[obiwan]

Step 1- find out what the insurance company’s criteria for diminished value claims are.

My guess is that it requires that someone else is proven “at fault” in the accident. IE a police report.

Here are the rules where I live: In Florida, you can file a diminished value claim only if another driver was at fault, you must file within 4 years of the accident, and you cannot recover diminished value from your own insurance policy.

I’m in PA. I believe I’m “structurally” able to get diminished value (other person is at fault, not my insurance, police report/accident on record, etc..). This is verbal only so far, but Liberty Mutual is claiming they have no objective/quantitative criteria or formula to determine diminished value. But we also aren’t a candidate for it. The best they gave over the phone was the damage was too minor, though even then they wouldn’t/couldn’t tell me what level of damage would qualify.

 

[69Mach390]

I’m in PA. I believe I’m “structurally” able to get diminished value (other person is at fault, not my insurance, police report/accident on record, etc..). This is verbal only so far, but Liberty Mutual is claiming they have no objective/quantitative criteria or formula to determine diminished value. But we also aren’t a candidate for it. The best they gave over the phone was the damage was too minor, though even then they wouldn’t/couldn’t tell me what level of damage would qualify.

Gotcha, in the end you may have to ask if the juice is worth the squeeze. 11k damage, how much diminished value are you hoping to get? A couple grand?

The next step if you want to pursue is figure out how to file a diminished value claim. I would guess it takes more than a phone conversation and the people on the phone aren’t likely the decision makers anyways.

Quick google search: To file a diminished value claim with Liberty Mutual, you must submit a formal demand letter and an independent vehicle appraisal directly to the property damage adjuster handling the at-fault driver's claim. https://snapclaim.com/liberty-mutual-diminished-value-claim/

 

[CFD]

I'm in a good position to answer this since I'm both an attorney and a former auto industry analyst. As long as it's the at fault party paying the claim (and not your own insurance company), you have a right to be made whole. And diminished value of a late model vehicle is real, and with a Porsche it's even greater. The insurance company will delay and push back as much as possible, partly because it's hard to prove diminished value compared to actual repair costs. They will also argue that you still have the car, so you haven't actually lost anything (arguably their strongest argument). As for what to do, here are a couple suggestions. If you get your car appraised by CarMax they will ask about prior damage and will ding (pun intended) the ACV (actual cash value) by because of the prior accident. This is a hard example of diminished value. You can also go to websites like Bringatrailer.com and Carsandbids.com and find similar vehicles that have had prior damage and go through the comments and you are likely to find some that discuss needing to pay less because of the damage. You can also see if your local dealer's used car manager will write you a short letter explaining that he (or she) would pay $X less for your car in trade because of the prior damage. When you talk to the adjuster, if they seem reasonable, ask them to honestly tell you if they were looking at two identical vehicles, and one had prior damage and the other didn't, would they pay as much for the one that had damage that had been repaired. If they are honest they will admit they wouldn't. And if they say they wouldn't worry about it and would pay the same for the damaged (and repaired unit), then they are simply a turd and you know you'll have a fight on your hands. As an attorney my current focus is establishing valuation of major injury and death cases though large scale mock trial surveys. In the past for a few friends with nicer cars who have faced diminished value claims, I've added surveys asking respondents to evaluate what they would pay for two similar vehicles, but one has had the pictured damaged repaired. When I've done this you typically find that people will say they will pay $2K to $6K less for the repaired vehicle, and this has been effective at convincing the insurance company to pay a reasonable diminished value claim. I don't expect you'll hire someone to do this type of survey, but I mention because it shows that if you have the evidence, and stand firm, you can get the insurance company to be reasonable on diminished value. Good luck...

 

[obiwan]

Gotcha, in the end you may have to ask if the juice is worth the squeeze. 11k damage, how much diminished value are you hoping to get? A couple grand?

The next step if you want to pursue is figure out how to file a diminished value claim. I would guess it takes more than a phone conversation and the people on the phone aren’t likely the decision makers anyways.

Quick google search: To file a diminished value claim with Liberty Mutual, you must submit a formal demand letter and an independent vehicle appraisal directly to the property damage adjuster handling the at-fault driver's claim. https://snapclaim.com/liberty-mutual-diminished-value-claim/

A grand here and a grand there and it starts to add up ;-)

Thanks for that link, there is a lot of good information in there.

 

[obiwan]

I'm in a good position to answer this since I'm both an attorney and a former auto industry analyst. As long as it's the at fault party paying the claim (and not your own insurance company), you have a right to be made whole. And diminished value of a late model vehicle is real, and with a Porsche it's even greater. The insurance company will delay and push back as much as possible, partly because it's hard to prove diminished value compared to actual repair costs. They will also argue that you still have the car, so you haven't actually lost anything (arguably their strongest argument). As for what to do, here are a couple suggestions. If you get your car appraised by CarMax they will ask about prior damage and will ding (pun intended) the ACV (actual cash value) by because of the prior accident. This is a hard example of diminished value. You can also go to websites like Bringatrailer.com and Carsandbids.com and find similar vehicles that have had prior damage and go through the comments and you are likely to find some that discuss needing to pay less because of the damage. You can also see if your local dealer's used car manager will write you a short letter explaining that he (or she) would pay $X less for your car in trade because of the prior damage. When you talk to the adjuster, if they seem reasonable, ask them to honestly tell you if they were looking at two identical vehicles, and one had prior damage and the other didn't, would they pay as much for the one that had damage that had been repaired. If they are honest they will admit they wouldn't. And if they say they wouldn't worry about it and would pay the same for the damaged (and repaired unit), then they are simply a turd and you know you'll have a fight on your hands. As an attorney my current focus is establishing valuation of major injury and death cases though large scale mock trial surveys. In the past for a few friends with nicer cars who have faced diminished value claims, I've added surveys asking respondents to evaluate what they would pay for two similar vehicles, but one has had the pictured damaged repaired. When I've done this you typically find that people will say they will pay $2K to $6K less for the repaired vehicle, and this has been effective at convincing the insurance company to pay a reasonable diminished value claim. I don't expect you'll hire someone to do this type of survey, but I mention because it shows that if you have the evidence, and stand firm, you can get the insurance company to be reasonable on diminished value. Good luck...

I'm kicking myself here. I was using Carvana to get an idea of the depreciation curve, but I didn't save the old emails. Their cash offer dropped by 20% once the accident hit the report. What I'm left with is a gap between Carvana's offer, and KBB/Carfax's estimated values. But I could see someone claiming that is apples and oranges (even though for my other car Carvana/KBB/Carfax is within a small %).

 

[RAHRCR]

For the Taycan faithful, diminished value isn’t a bug, it’s a feature. I recommend driving the thing into the ground….that way your enjoyment will, by far, outweigh the cost.

 

[obiwan]

Oh I am! But diminished value != depreciation. And given it was a hit & run, I'm going to pursue the diminished value...

(but yes, I agree I shouldn't have looked at/thought about the depreciation given I have no intention of selling)

 

[PNW_CT]

I have Liberty Mutual and had an accident in my Boxster GTS last month. Other party is at fault. Liberty is paying for the repairs going on now and has said that once the claim is complete, I can file a DV claim with their insurance company and adjuster (that Liberty is in touch with for subrogation). My Liberty adjuster said I do not have an optional coverage for them to pay DV and subrogate it so I will have to do it after.

 

[DerekS]

Go to a dealership and ask for a buy bid, and ask them directly how much the “bad carfax” affects it.

 

[blueslite]

I replied also in DMs, but will post also here for others:
- In Nov I was hit and run by a truck driver in Miami
- my front bumper + camera + sensors + other stuff were affected
- total damage about 12-15k
- the police found the driver and I had a police report saying it was the other driver at fault
- we had the same insurance (progressive) and they took care of everything, including rental and comprehensive reimbursement
- when it came to diminished value, they said they cannot help anymore (since we had the same insurance)

Here is what I did
- I made a "claim" via email with: car fax value before the crash, car fax report, car fax value after the crash, asked for 10k (which was about 17% of the value of the car at that time, 2021 CT4) and told them that if they dont want to settle I will hire an accident attorney but I would prefer not to do that since it's going to be a waste of my time and their money. 2-3 weeks later they offered me $6k, then we negotiate for about 1 week, and we agreed on 7.5K + the rental costs to be added as part of this settlement. I signed a waiver and they wired me the money the same day.

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