From Taycan to BMW i5 - Honest Opinion

[Throb]

^ for the AWD

You can get an eDrive40 in AWD now.

love it when a man says why do you need a more powerful car when he has a GTS and poor old me has a 4S.

That's not what I said though. Not "a" more powerful car, but *specifically* the i5.

The price uplift from a 4S to a GTS in my spec was much smaller than from an i5 eDrive40 to an i5 M60.

The lease for the M60 was a LOT cheaper, £5,500 over the 2 years cheaper and it’s X-Drive for country roads in winter

Cheaper than what?

What’s e-drive is it similar
or is it still 2 WD

"eDrive" is RWD. You can get a 4WD version of the "40" now, called the xDrive40.

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[Finbo]

You can get an eDrive40 in AWD now.




That's not what I said though. Not "a" more powerful car, but *specifically* the i5.

The price uplift from a 4S to a GTS in my spec was much smaller than from an i5 eDrive40 to an i5 M60.


Cheaper than what?



"eDrive" is RWD. You can get a 4WD version of the "40" now, called the xDrive40.

Just found it very funny that you need a GTS while an i5M40 was more than enough. Take it it was it was mean as a joke

The i5M60 was cheaper to lease by a considerable amount over the i5M40. BM can’t give them away but want them out there so discounted them way down to make a very cheap 2 year lease

 

[Jonathan S.]

You can get an eDrive40 in AWD now. [...]

Yes, but then it is now longer the eDrive 40.
(Same thing happened with our i4: just as our M50 order was about to go into production, the i4 xDrive40 was announced. Oh well, the extra hp aren't a drawback, and the price differential with comparable options is fairly narrow. Plus just adds to the irony that although I never thought that I would drive a Porsche, I certainly never thought that while driving a Porsche my wife would be driving an even faster car!)

 

[D00]

Maybe you mean Porsche dealer, Agnew’s Group who had all the big dealerships and while all the guys in each of the dealers were and TBH still great on a personal basis, when bought out by Sytner’s it’s been a massive downhill trip. First thing we seen was getting the car serviced and pay before you get the keys back. That’s not something you do in NI when dealing with people for years and buying a lot of cars personally and in the business. Why when possible we deal with local dealers and not nationwide ones

Dealers have whole regions sewn up, creating monopolies. The absence of competition affects both quality and cost. Whilst you can buy nationally, you then see an attitude of ‘you didn’t buy it from us’ for warranty claims. Using an independent dealer for service would result in a 200 mile round trip. Porsche dealers just don’t have to try to win your business.
Vets have gone the same way.
The Competition & Markets Authority should break up the regional monopolies.
In contrast to Porsche, Mercedes Audi and JLR, in my area there are 3 different BMW franchise owners within 40 miles. For me that’s a reason to change brand.

 

[Jonathan S.]

Dealers have whole regions sewn up, creating monopolies. The absence of competition affects both quality and cost. Whilst you can buy nationally, you then see an attitude of ‘you didn’t buy it from us’ for warranty claims. Using an independent dealer for service would result in a 200 mile round trip. Porsche dealers just don’t have to try to win your business.
Vets have gone the same way.
The Competition & Markets Authority should break up the regional monopolies.
In contrast to Porsche, Mercedes Audi and JLR, in my area there are 3 different BMW franchise owners within 40 miles. For me that’s a reason to change brand.

I have not experienced that problem with warranty work, for either Audi or Porsche.
And conceptually, that problem would require coordination between the sales department and service department, which is rare.
Also, that problem would require resentment toward warranty work by the service department, whereas the U.S. subsidiaries of the vehicle manufacturers seem to be compensating their independent dealers enough to make those entirely separate business quite happy.

I have though experienced reluctance of various sorts by dealers to sell to customers who live far enough away that they are unlikely to come in for service at that dealer.

I'm also not sure what you mean by "independent dealer" -- all the dealers are independent dealers, although tied of course to the car manufacturers by their dealership agreements, unlike the indie mechanics, who although not able to perform warranty work are generally better for all over service.

 

[Throb]

Just found it very funny that you need a GTS while an i5M40 was more than enough. Take it it was it was mean as a joke

The i5 just isn't a car which benefits from more power in the same way the Taycan does.

You have a very childlike view of the buying process, thinking that because I bought a car with more power, then I would apply to that to *any* car. This isn't TopTrumps.

The i5M60 was cheaper to lease by a considerable amount over the i5M40. BM can’t give them away but want them out there so discounted them way down to make a very cheap 2 year lease

My comments are entirely based on list prices, and I thought this would be obvious. I doubt you'd be talking with such praise of the M60 had it not been heavily discounted, which just supports my point that the M60 is not worth the price hike over an eDrive40. The list price of the M60 is silly money.

I've no idea why you're so triggered at my opinion. Enjoy the M60. Had I been able to lease an M60 for less than an eDrive40, I of course would have taken that. As I'm in the Netherlands, however, the two situations are not comparable.

 

[Finbo]

The i5 just isn't a car which benefits from more power in the same way the Taycan does.

You have a very childlike view of the buying process, thinking that because I bought a car with more power, then I would apply to that to *any* car. This isn't TopTrumps.





My comments are entirely based on list prices, and I thought this would be obvious. I doubt you'd be talking with such praise of the M60 had it not been heavily discounted, which just supports my point that the M60 is not worth the price hike over an eDrive40. The list price of the M60 is silly money.

I've no idea why you're so triggered at my opinion. Enjoy the M60. Had I been able to lease an M60 for less than an eDrive40, I of course would have taken that. As I'm in the Netherlands, however, the two situations are not comparable.

F me Ted, get a life

 

[Scandinavian]

Dealers have whole regions sewn up, creating monopolies. The absence of competition affects both quality and cost. Whilst you can buy nationally, you then see an attitude of ‘you didn’t buy it from us’ for warranty claims. Using an independent dealer for service would result in a 200 mile round trip. Porsche dealers just don’t have to try to win your business.
Vets have gone the same way.
The Competition & Markets Authority should break up the regional monopolies.
In contrast to Porsche, Mercedes Audi and JLR, in my area there are 3 different BMW franchise owners within 40 miles. For me that’s a reason to change brand.

I have never eperienced any issue when earlier importing a,Porsche to UK.from Germany. The UK Porsche centres happily performed any warranty issues on the car, without any questions. And that also meant issues with the steering wheel on the other side. So cannot believe that Porsche would have started being picky on issues of cars bought in the same country.

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

I'm also not sure what you mean by "independent dealer" -- all the dealers are independent dealers, although tied of course to the car manufacturers by their dealership agreements, unlike the indie mechanics, who although not able to perform warranty work are generally better for all over service.

The US dealer model is very different from UK/Europe's.

(Porsche have tried once to change it, and it cost the then-CEO his job - though not immediately. Too bad, he was actually quite a good fellow - he saved the 911 from being axed.)

 

[Throb]

F me Ted, get a life

Imagine getting this upset because someone on a forum said something you didn't agree with about a car. It's deeply odd.

 

[whitex]

Made the move from Taycan (‘21 Base) to BMW i5 (eDrive 40) and will attempt to give my pros/cons of each

I built my Taycan, I loved my Taycan, but here is why I did it:

- was faced with either buying a warranty or changing cars within a year, as I was unwilling to risk taking the Taycan out of 4-year/50k warranty

- kids growing fast, felt they would appreciate more leg room/comfort at some point

- wanted to free up some cash flow via lower monthly payments if possible

- I received a lot of attention with the Taycan, and being introverted it was wearing on me (couldn’t make it to the grocery store without the “nice car, it’s electric? What’s the range like? Etc.” and it striking up a conversation)
*this is my fault as I could have configured a less flashy version

Where the i5 wins in my opinion:
- well, price of course. On top of it being less expensive, it cut $150 off monthly insurance premiums
- much smoother ride, like, not close - but I had 21” rims on a 3+ year old Taycan and steel suspension which is a factor there. i5 is 20” rims
-Tech much better, no Apple Music connectivity issues, no longer need to carry a physical key around - just on a different planet on the tech side
-the boost paddle makes launch control feel like an outdated gimmick
-comfort, seats, etc. but I had just the base seats in the Taycan

Where the Taycan wins:
- WOW factor/looks, everywhere you go heads turn
- Porsche Brand impressive and makes people sit up a little higher in their chair
- Faster than the base i5
- Firmness while driving fast
- Bose sound system was fantastic IMO. Base i5 sound is garbage

All in all, if $ and my family’s comfort were no object, I would drive a…LAMBORGHINI! But if it were between a base Taycan & base i5 I would take the Taycan.

However, it’s a lot closer than even I expected, especially for those who value interior/comfort as much as exterior looks/brand

will forever love my Taycan, though - and appreciate this form for all the guidance over the last 4 years

I’m out!

Perhaps you should have gone with MB EQS AMG. Understated (very vanilla bland in looks, not begging for attention), great deals on them right now, great EV (better range, faster than Taycan RWD, probably a little lower on handing though, except for RAS which MB has a much higher max deflection angle making it seem even smaller than Taycan with RAS), much better ADAS (e.g. Level 3 on highways where you can legally take your eyes off the road - that's more than Tesla FSD can deliver today), more comfort and high tech features (better massage seats, AR HUD, etc). EQS EMG was my second choice to Taycan Turbo. EQS AMG vs. Taycan RWD would have been probably come out in favor of the Mercedes.

PS> I'm also an introvert, don't care much for attention. My Taycan CT Turbo is very toned down, no badging, all monochrome, almost all of my upgrades were functional vs. esthetic.

 

[rich_r]

re Battery replacement cost, that would almost certainly come down in the future as a market develops for that service given that right now it's almost exclusively under warranty.

I've noticed there's so much fear and misinformation when it comes to fears about EV battery life and replacement cost.
1. What you stated above: independent shops will find ways of cost effectively repairing batteries. This is already happening with some independent companies replacing individual battery modules on Teslas for a few $k. On that note, I'm fairly certain that the Taycan's pack is designed with modules that can be individually replaced as well.
2. As someone else mentioned, the cost of getting an ICE engine replaced at a Porsche dealer is also quite expensive (in the ~$30k range). Expensive cars have expensive repair costs; nothing specific to being an EV.
3. There seems to be a misconception that batteries have a high failure rate and are almost guaranteed to die right after the warranty ends (I often see analogies to phone batteries). I think what many people dont understand is that nearly all modern EVs have liquid cooled batteries, plus buffers and sophisticated BMS systems that phones do not. This contributes to a longer usable life. There are now plenty of examples of older Tesla's with very high mileage on their original batteries.
4. Atleast in the US, EV batteries are covered by a federally mandated 8 year/100k warranty. That's way longer than most ICE warranties (other than Hyundai's 10 year powertrain warranty).


I see this type of fear and misinformation spread by even people that should know better. It's really bizarre.

 

[whitex]

independent shops will find ways of cost effectively repairing batteries. This is already happening with some independent companies replacing individual battery modules on Teslas for a few $k. On that note, I'm fairly certain that the Taycan's pack is designed with modules that can be individually replaced as well.

True, but the costs will depend on the market size for a particular vehicle. A shop specializing in repairing Tesla batteries has a lot more potential customers than a ship repairing Taycan batteries. There is also a lot more totaled Tesla to salvage parts from. Heck, even within Tesla brand, see what it would cost to repair a Tesla Roadster battery vs. Model S battery (both had a similar MSRP, but there was a lot more Model S'es manufactured).

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