J1.2 Oversteer

[Mr.Smith]

I find my Taycan to be very tail happy.
Coming out of a turn, a little throttle and the tail kicks out, even if the tires are warm.

Traction control saves it, but it's pretty aggressive.
This is without the power upgrade which will be even more dangerous.

Is this much oversteer normal for Taycan?

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[freinando]

Assuming you have the Turbo GT on your profile pic, I wouldn’t expect any less tbh. That car better be tail happy . Maybe it depends on the drive mode you are on?

 

[Mr.Smith]

Assuming you have the Turbo GT on your profile pic, I wouldn’t expect any less tbh. That car better be tail happy . Maybe it depends on the drive mode you are on?

It's a Turbo GT with Weissach. I push it a little harder in Sport and Sport Plus

I'm not sure if other variants have the same driving dynamics

 

[Vision]

Not much of a kick out on the turbo S, but then again I have 335's in the rear.

 

[refazi]

I'm pretty sure removing the back seats removed the balance from the car and now it oversteers constantly... bring back the seats!

 

[WuffvonTrips]

Why does it feel dangerous? Is it difficult to moderate accelerator input and/or is the tail significantly more wayward when accelerating out of a corner at a rate that less powerful cars manage without drama? I'm assuming the latter based on your question, so is it an issue in all drive modes and are you on the recommended tyres for current conditions?
I've not experienced a GT, but I've driven several more mundane 1st gen Turbos and Turbo S and the only time I was surprised by oversteer was the 1st roundabout I took after switching from summers to winters in conditions that still favoured summer tyres, and even then it felt easily controllable.

 

[prj]

Those who haven't driven the facelift at near full monty don't really know - the new rear motor has significantly more torque and the Turbo GT is in first gear for longer - above 80km/h or so it has almost double the torque in the rear compared to the J1.1.

If you want less oversteer then the front to rear torque bias can be adjusted to some extent in the ASG, more in 2nd gear than in 1st, because in 1st it's around 33:66 on the Turbo GT/Turbo S.

The other variants (when tuned) are like 18:82 though, so even more tail happy.

 

[Mr.Smith]

Why does it feel dangerous? Is it difficult to moderate accelerator input and/or is the tail significantly more wayward when accelerating out of a corner at a rate that less powerful cars manage without drama? I'm assuming the latter based on your question, so is it an issue in all drive modes and are you on the recommended tyres for current conditions?
I've not experienced a GT, but I've driven several more mundane 1st gen Turbos and Turbo S and the only time I was surprised by oversteer was the 1st roundabout I took after switching from summers to winters in conditions that still favoured summer tyres, and even then it felt easily controllable.

I have less than 2,000 miles on the car, stock Pirelli P-Zero R summer tires, in sunny California. I don't drive in the rain and I avoid driving in cold temps for safety.

I just really have to pay attention all the time and I'm not a good enough driver to ever turn off TC on public roads.

My previous car was an upgraded RS E-Tron GT which had close to the same horse power as the Turbo GT, not in attack mode.
Audi known for understeer was very predictable. I could kick out the rear with a good amount of throttle input.

Driving at higher speeds in the same canyons I noticed TC kicking in. This was never the case with the Audi. At 100mph, coming out of a bend, It easily kicks out the rear with too much throttle.

The ability to rotate so easily is was makes the Turbo GT such a track weapon. I suppose I'm just surprised how easy it is to rotate

 

[Detect]

Stock Turbo GT has more torque than tuned RS E-tron GT (1185 Nm vs 910 Nm), I believe. When I went from RS E-tron GT to Taycan Turbo S, I noticed the horsepower/torque difference on the track, and it took me a little while to adapt. Have to be patient and smooth applying throttle mid-corner. Also, check and play around with tire pressure.

 

[Mr.Smith]

Stock Turbo GT has more torque than tuned RS E-tron GT (1185 Nm vs 910 Nm), I believe. When I went from RS E-tron GT to Taycan Turbo S, I noticed the horsepower/torque difference on the track, and it took me a little while to adapt. Have to be patient and smooth applying throttle mid-corner. Also, check and play around with tire pressure.

@prj would know the difference in torque with a tuned RS E-Tron GT vs a stock Turbo S.

I know the Audi is software tuned to be softer, with more understeer.

J1.2 Turbo S/GT in stock form just rotates more.
I assume the GT roates even more due to have more torque.

A friend with a Tuned J1.2 CT doesn't get as much rotation from what he has said.

 

[prj]

Stock Turbo GT has more torque than tuned RS E-tron GT (1185 Nm vs 910 Nm), I believe. When I went from RS E-tron GT to Taycan Turbo S, I noticed the horsepower/torque difference on the track, and it took me a little while to adapt. Have to be patient and smooth applying throttle mid-corner. Also, check and play around with tire pressure.

It's all not so simple. I will give tuned examples, not stock.

Turbo S and RS e-tron GT have the same rear motor, however the Turbo S has a more powerful front motor so is not as tail happy.

Turbo S and Turbo GT (J1.2) is a weird comparison.
The thing is that Turbo GT has on paper much more max torque (1300Nm vs 1160 Nm).
However, the rear inverter should be viewed separately.

There is 470 Nm on the front in both cases, but 690 Nm on the rear in case of the Turbo S and 830 Nm in case of the Turbo GT.

Looks like Turbo GT has more torque, right? But reality is different. It has 20.3% more torque, but at the same time the final drive on the Turbo GT is 24.8% longer.

So in reality the Turbo S in first gear actually has more 3.7% torque than the Turbo GT.
Turbo S optimal shiftpoint is 85km/h, however the Turbo GT optimal is 115km/h, so in that range the Turbo GT is MUCH faster, but as both go into 2nd gear the realistic difference is around 100hp. Which is why the 100-200 time is also only 0.3s better on the Turbo GT (but it can do 305km/h).

The Turbo GT also has 100hp more tuned, because not only the peak torque but also the peak power is different, and this is just from the rear motor.

So acceleration wise, a tuned Turbo S is not really slower 0-60 if there is equal traction, and it actually 3.7% more wheel torque available at lower speeds due to the final drive difference.

Again - talking tuned. From factory it's all limited, because if the Turbo S was also unlimited the 4 seat Turbo GT would not make much sense apart from acceleration at high speed. The gap between the tuned 4/4S/GTS/Turbo and the Turbo S is MUCH more significant than between the Turbo GT and the Turbo S - 140hp difference and 56.6% more torque capability on the front axle, which translates to much better acceleration at low speeds when acceleration is traction limited.

In the end all this translates to the following 100-200 times:
Turbo GT (4 door) - 4.3s
Turbo S - 4.6s
4/4S/GTS/Turbo - 4.9s

The Turbo GT is limited by the battery from 100% SoC. Tuned Turbo S is limited from around 65% and the rest only start getting slower around 30%. Depends on temperature of course.

If we get back on topic - in normal and attack mode (1st gear) the front-to-rear split can be adjusted in the ASG, because the output is limited. In 2nd gear at lower speeds it's maxed, higher speeds is limited, so can also be adjusted.
Porsche could really have put in a front-rear bias dial on the steering wheel in the Turbo GT. I have no idea why they didn't!

 

[StamStam]

I have less than 2,000 miles on the car, stock Pirelli P-Zero R summer tires, in sunny California. I don't drive in the rain and I avoid driving in cold temps for safety.

I just really have to pay attention all the time and I'm not a good enough driver to ever turn off TC on public roads.

My previous car was an upgraded RS E-Tron GT which had close to the same horse power as the Turbo GT, not in attack mode.
Audi known for understeer was very predictable. I could kick out the rear with a good amount of throttle input.

Driving at higher speeds in the same canyons I noticed TC kicking in. This was never the case with the Audi. At 100mph, coming out of a bend, It easily kicks out the rear with too much throttle.

The ability to rotate so easily is was makes the Turbo GT such a track weapon. I suppose I'm just surprised how easy it is to rotate

the acceleration and the feel you have when driving your previous e-tron rs gt and your new Turbo Gt without using attack mode is almost the same?

 

[Mr.Smith]

the acceleration and the feel you have when driving your previous e-tron rs gt and your new Turbo Gt without using attack mode is almost the same?

The Turbo GT is 777hp without Attack Mode, tuned RS E-Tron GT was around the same.

Turbo GT power delivery is more violent

 

[prj]

The Turbo GT is 777hp without Attack Mode, tuned RS E-Tron GT was around the same.

Turbo GT power delivery is more violent

You should install that ASG you have and learn the true meaning of the word
From a roll that hits different.

Won't help with your oversteer problem though.

 

[Mr.Smith]

You should install that ASG you have and learn the true meaning of the word
From a roll that hits different.

Won't help with your oversteer problem though.

I've had the upgraded ASG before the car was delivered haha.

I need to get a better feel for the cars driving dynamics, including the oversteer.
I couldn't imagine with that upgrade and I can't wait

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