New Porsche Car Charger

[kort]

I didn't even bother to install the PMCC on the wall, and I'm still using the ChargePoint I already had, which is a 40A (32A continuous) charger. You have to have some pretty special use cases to actually need a 100A charger... especially when the 150kW EA charger down the street is free..

the free charger costs you time, the value of having a home charger is that you can charge during your down times, not wasting 30 minutes to drive to and charge as needed.

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[kort]

Yeah, I was researching wall chargers this morning. I am building a house and want to rough-in the 220-V line and box from the electrical panel to the garage wall ahead of time. I like the Porsche Wall charging system but I did not spec' out the KB4 options. I am still 40-days out from my Freeze date, however. Given what I discovered today, it will cost me $3,400, before labor, to realize the benefit of the 19.2kW charging system vs. the standard 11kW. It likely will cut charging time down to half, which may be worth it...

if you are in the process of building a house then I would install as much amperage capability as possible in order to future proof the installation.

 

[NC_Taycan]

Just wondering why you dial it back. I’m a total newbie at this but aren’t you still delivering the same amount of electricity to the car, just at a slower rate and with extended charge time by dialing it back? Is it because there is less wear on the battery with a slower rate?

Yes on the total kWh delivered. I doubt the battery feels the difference at charging rates < 50 kW.

Less chance of anything (cables, charger, the NEMA socket) to overheat. Especially if you have one of the cheap $10 NEMA outlets, lowering the amps below 30A can help prevent its meltdown.

Other reasons might have to do with the overall electrical load of your house (dryers, ovens, etc) in case you want the total load to be under certain limit (i.e. <80% of a subpanel's or main's max capacity).

^ This

I have an industrial NEMA 14-50 outlet installed in the garage, specifically so I don't worry about unplugging the PMCC when need to travel with it - which is at most once a month. Same outlet has been great since it was installed in 2012 and servicing my Model S. At 30A, everything from plug, pigtail, PMCC, and charging cable are all pretty much uniformly the same temperature - warm to the touch, but certainly not hot. The PMCC main unit is the warmest. I have overheated the PMCC once before even at 30A (by enclosing it in a small space and at a relatively high ambient temperature one time while travelling).

 

[whitex]

I will be very interested to see people install this - set it match breaker size of 60/80/100 - and then plug a “stock” Taycan into it and have it charge at 11 kW - and yet Porsche’s spec for NA Taycan says 9.6 kW which we all know is false.

I suspect they will just change the spec on the Taycan to 11KW. Nobody should complain about getting a higher spec than they ordered. I guess if someone is really insistent and threaten to sue, they could software limit it to 9.6KW.

 

[JimBob]

The cabinet for the PMCC is a waste of money. It looks nice, but the circuit easily overheats so you have to leave the door open.

 

[whitex]

FWIW, in almost 9 years of EV ownership, I have never needed more than 9.6 kW charging at home. In fact I dial it back to 30A. Just my datapoint.

Different people have different usecases. For example, my wife have been driving an EV for over 5 years now, and she only charged outside of the house once, and that was a "just in case, 15m opportunistic charge while stopping for a bathroom break" - she could have made it home without it, it was just an additional comfort buffer. Maybe I'm being totally rational, but that doesn't mean I would buy recommend for her an EV which cannot charge anywhere but the house.

Same goes for faster charging. Her car can do 48A, and there was a time when the extra 8A actually came handy when driving a bunch, coming home briefly, then driving a bunch again during a cold winter. My car can do 80A, which before COVID used to come handy no more than 3 times year, and long ago used to be handy on a particular route where DC chargers were too far apart (they've built out more since). I have a coworker who uses 80A charging to charge during the cheapest Time Of Use electricity rate window I don't have TOU plan so not my usecase.

Bottom line, the return on investment for the 80A charger depends on your usecases, for most people it can be very long if ever positive, but it can be nice on those few occasions where it saves you a half hour or an hour during a trip.

 

[buhhy]

Has anyone installed one of these yet? I’m in the middle of a garage remodel and have the chance to add the 100A circuit with minimal additional cost. It sounds like the main issue with the 19.2kW charging option (plug and charge) on the car is fixed, so there’s isn’t a reason not to spec it anymore. I only found 2 competitor EVSEs: the ClipperCreek CS-100 ($2200) and the Blink IQ200 ($3500). Somehow the Porsche PWCC at $1600 is the lowest priced option. Is it a good product though?

 

[SECRET]

I know a lot of folks here have spent a considerable amount of time comparing specs of chargers. I have a Tesla Wall Connector from 2015 (not sure what generation it is), but back then, it was giving me around 59 miles of range per hour, which was pretty good. At the time, my electrician set it up to support 80A with a 100A breaker.

Do you all happen to know if this Porsche charger is an improvement on the one already on my wall or if I should just pony up for the Tesla adapter and call it a day?

 

[Mr Hockey]

I know a lot of folks here have spent a considerable amount of time comparing specs of chargers. I have a Tesla Wall Connector from 2015 (not sure what generation it is), but back then, it was giving me around 59 miles of range per hour, which was pretty good. At the time, my electrician set it up to support 80A with a 100A breaker.

Do you all happen to know if this Porsche charger is an improvement on the one already on my wall or if I should just pony up for the Tesla adapter and call it a day?

I may be missing the obvious but what are the formal specs of your Tesla charger - as opposed to what the electrician configured it for as well as the wiring that was used ? Also, what is the maximum size Tesla tap available (not sure if they have one rated above 80A) ?

To a large degree, if it can handle 80A that’s quite good. Keep in mind the buffer your electric code usually requires is 20%. in other words an 80A draw requires wiring and breaker to be rated at 100A (96A more precisely). If the wiring can only handle 100A you’d likely be limited to an 80A unit. If you did get the new Porsche charger which can handle 19KW, that’s likely quite close to matching up without having to rewire. Of course, the other variable is how much more your electric panel can absorb.

I have the Clipper Creek HCS80 at one home but wired the home with at least 4 ga aluminum (may actually be heavier gauge but I could figure out what the electrician actually used). I’ll always be limited by that. We chose the Clipper creek model because it’s capable of being piggy backed with a second unit where the load can be shared by two units to handle multiple cars yet supposedly deliver full power to one once the second car is fully charged. Don’t have that need today so it’s a hit of future proofing for us.

At our second home, we used 1 SE R wiring which should be capable of handling 115A (or possibly more) albeit currently feeding a 50A plug for the original 40A Porsche charging unit.

The Clipper Creek units are dumb and do not provide any level of control / information. I have not had much reason to monitor my car from afar / inside the home during charging sessions. By the time my app loads and my charging status updates, it’s been easier to just open the car door to get status updates (assuming I’m in the house).

hope this isn’t too redundant and is helpful.

 

[daveo4EV]

80A is currently (no pun intended) the maximum L2 charging rate specified by the J-1772 EV charging SAE standard - and 80 amp EV charger is required to be on a 100 amp 240V circuit.

this charging rate will result in 19.2 kW of “raw” power being sent to the onboard AC/DC charger embedded in the vehicle.

• Tesla Wall Chargers Gen1 support configurable charge rates from 12-80 amps (15-100 amp breakers)
• Tesla Wall Chargers Gen2 support the same range of AMPs, but can also be “shared” up to 4 units configured to share a single breaker for dynamic load shared charging
• Tesla Wall Charger Gen2 support 12-48 amps (15-60 amp breakers) and can be load shared for upto 16 units - that can be configured to share large >100 amp circuits - while the charger itself can only do 48 amps - you can have up to 16 chargers sharing a 200 amp circuit for example

TeslaTap supports an 80 amp adapter which is what is required for 19.2 kW charging.

19.2 kW charging is still rare in North America as any sort of “public” charger - there are some, mostly Tesla Destination Chargers (so you’d need a Tesla Tap) - the 100 amp circuit requirement also makes this an expensive residential install:

• $1600 for the porsche option
• $1500 or more for the EVSE
• a down payment on college fund paid to your electrician to install the 100 amp circuit…

my advice to people considering the 19.2 kW charger option - if you get it assume you’ll only use it in your home (or work if you control that sort of thing) - cause running into one of these “in the wild” is going to happen only rarely (and again _IF_ you do it will most likely be a Tesla Destination charger and you’ll need the 80 amp TeslaTap to safely use it).

that being said - this will fully charge your Taycan in 6 hours or less - so that’s a great thing and no one ever complained their EV was charging too fast - but it’s not an option that is going to see a lot of activity away from your home in-garage charging setup.

 

[daveo4EV]

LucidAir, GM Hummer, Rivian, Ford F-150 EV’s all support standard/optional 19.2 kW L2 charging - so installing this sort of setup in your home would also benefit these other EV’s coming to market if you would consider owning one.

both the Hummer and F-150 batteries are so large, and consumption so high that a 19.2 kW might make a _LOT_ of sense in terms of daily use charging scenarios.

again no EV owner has ever complained my EV charges sooo fast - so if you can handle the cost and your home can handle the 100 amp dedicated circuit by _ALL MEANS_ install a 100 amp Porsche or ClipperCreek charger - it’s great to be able to charge as fast as possible when you to do so - it’s a great setup and I highly recommend it as long as you go in ”eyes open” and understand where/when this will benefit you…public charging is migrating to FastDC (which is a good thing and much much fast) - so this infrastructure will only benefit your EV charging when you are charging at home (most likely).

 

[daveo4EV]

Two EV chargers confgiured to “share” a 100 amp circuit is kinda ideal in my book and doable for many mid-range/upscale residential homes.

this is a good setup and will charge 1 EV as fast as possible (19.2 kW) and when charging two EV’s split the load so that each gets 9.6 kW - still fast enough for overnight…

 

[gnop1950]

Mine (Porsche Wall Charger connect) is being installed Monday. Unfortunately, my Taycan order just hit the freeze point yesterday so it will be a while (late March or early April) before I take delivery.

 

[Mr Hockey]

80A is currently (no pun intended) the maximum L2 charging rate specified by the J-1772 EV charging SAE standard - and 80 amp EV charger is required to be on a 100 amp 240V circuit.

this charging rate will result in 19.2 kW of “raw” power being sent to the onboard AC/DC charger embedded in the vehicle.

• Tesla Wall Chargers Gen1 support configurable charge rates from 12-80 amps (15-100 amp breakers)
• Tesla Wall Chargers Gen2 support the same range of AMPs, but can also be “shared” up to 4 units configured to share a single breaker for dynamic load shared charging
• Tesla Wall Charger Gen2 support 12-48 amps (15-60 amp breakers) and can be load shared for upto 16 units - that can be configured to share large >100 amp circuits - while the charger itself can only do 48 amps - you can have up to 16 chargers sharing a 200 amp circuit for example

TeslaTap supports an 80 amp adapter which is what is required for 19.2 kW charging.

19.2 kW charging is still rare in North America as any sort of “public” charger - there are some, mostly Tesla Destination Chargers (so you’d need a Tesla Tap) - the 100 amp circuit requirement also makes this an expensive residential install:

• $1600 for the porsche option
• $1500 or more for the EVSE
• a down payment on college fund paid to your electrician to install the 100 amp circuit…

my advice to people considering the 19.2 kW charger option - if you get it assume you’ll only use it in your home (or work if you control that sort of thing) - cause running into one of these “in the wild” is going to happen only rarely (and again _IF_ you do it will most likely be a Tesla Destination charger and you’ll need the 80 amp TeslaTap to safely use it).

that being said - this will fully charge your Taycan in 6 hours or less - so that’s a great thing and no one ever complained their EV was charging too fast - but it’s not an option that is going to see a lot of activity away from your home in-garage charging setup.

for what it's worth:

- we paid about $2K total in one home for the Clipper Creek HCS80 unit and an electrician to wire up a subpanel, two 80A breakers (one on main and another on the subpanel) with about 50 ft of at least 4ga Aluminum.

- At our other home, which required 130 ft of wire, they quoted us $2,200 to do a 6ga copper, 50A plug (since this home uses the 40A Porsche charger. I decided to do most work myself, install a subpanel, used 1 SE R aluminum wire to the subpanel, etc and connect 6ga copper wire from subpanel to the 50A plug). I did use the electrician to connect the 1 SE R wire to the main panel since that main panel is hard wired to the street meter with no main breaker. Total cost of parts and electrician was under $1,000 (plus the original price of the Porsche charger).

In both cases, I am so frustrated with Electrify America and the issues getting this car to charge easily at one of their stations, I bit the bullet and paid up to charge at home. No amount of "free" charging is worth the Electrify American issues we continually experience......

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