Taycan re-sale issues

[eisenb11]

I don’t lease/finance anything. Just don’t like the idea and want to own my stuff and keep full flexibility what I do with it.

Depends on use-case. I change cars every 3-4 years - even when I buy them cash. Switching to leasing took the stress and uncertainty out of the equation and is worth something.

Leasing made even more sense with the Taycan as I suspect the residual is higher than its real-world value.

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[pedroleumjelly]

I went with a lease as well, my residual was 70% for a 2 year lease for a 120k MSRP. I think I got lucky there…

I will have paid $40k over the course of the ownership of the vehicle, and then I can just let the dealer have it. Overall, pretty decent IMO

 

[Murph7355]

Things may get better after a General Election when direction of travel is known. At the moment we are in the pre election mire of BS and faux promises.

I don't see the GE being a factor at all in the UK.

The problem is that 6-figure fast saloons/estates always depreciate heavily.

That's been made worse for the Taycan as Porsche totally ballsed up the supply/demand balance, probably believing that the massive demand and "overs" were all down to the product.

The tax incentives for new company vehicles also plays a part, compounding the above challenges.

A change in govt can only impact the last of these. But I don't see any party suddenly upping the incentives for people buying expensive, used EVs.

 

[RGBArgee]

I don't see the GE being a factor at all in the UK.

The problem is that 6-figure fast saloons/estates always depreciate heavily.

That's been made worse for the Taycan as Porsche totally ballsed up the supply/demand balance, probably believing that the massive demand and "overs" were all down to the product.

The tax incentives for new company vehicles also plays a part, compounding the above challenges.

A change in govt can only impact the last of these. But I don't see any party suddenly upping the incentives for people buying expensive, used EVs.

Within the trade there are significant concerns about the state of the uk economy and the confidence of people to spend money on high value products whilst interest rates are high and huge uncertainty about the direction of travel. Other factors play a part too but a GE is needed soon to stabilise things and hopefully generate a more positive future so people will start spending again. Deliberately avoiding mentioning the elephant in the room that is Brexit.

 

[Murph7355]

Within the trade there are significant concerns about the state of the uk economy and the confidence of people to spend money on high value products whilst interest rates are high and huge uncertainty about the direction of travel. Other factors play a part too but a GE is needed soon to stabilise things and hopefully generate a more positive future so people will start spending again. Deliberately avoiding mentioning the elephant in the room that is Brexit.

I admire your optimism

IMO there is going to be no "stability" for the next 10-15yrs (at least). None of the major parties has a plan for how to get the economy firing. So we will get deck chair shuffling on the Titanic for a while - until both major parties disappear up their own arseholes and our system is prompted to change fundamentally (this has been needed for a good 15yrs at least - Brexit's a sideshow in comparison. A symptom, not a cause).

Ref interest rates, I'd love to see them back at near zero...but currently they are not "high". When you look at the full history of interest rates they are "average".

I'm not really sure what uncertainty there currently is that if quelled (even IF our idiots in the houses could quell anything) would suddenly see enough demand to mop up 750 used Taycans. All the real levers are in Porsche's hands IMO...

• Be sensible in terms of supply of the new model (not sure how likely that is given the fines for not meeting EV targets each year)
• Stop being silly on finance rates....some aggressive financing options would see people taking a proper interest IMO
• Start seriously looking at battery warranties....break the mold and offer, say, 10yr/150k mile options...or allow them to be extended under similar terms to the rest of the car, and some of the nerves will subside
• Get better about pushing updates out to the cars to calm down the whole "it's obsolete" noise
  • All the software related efficiency gains...push them out
  • Improve PCM and have them push out to both generations
  • Commit to longer term updates

 

[Racer_Ex]

I leased mine. But I was still surprised by how fast the thing has depreciated. The 1/4 mile time is impressive but the depreciation curve is like nothing I've ever seen before out of Porsche.

 

[Avantgarde]

Red circle of deaths, 12V battery problems turning cars to bricks, heaters that are guaranteed to fail… none of these helps. Real issue is not that people are after the latest tech so they won’t pay much for the older “iphone”. Any taycan on the market is still a super attractive driving proposition and will be for a while. What is causing hesitation is reliability. Market needs more info on reliability. How common is a major breakdown? What is causing the HV battery module failures? How often? - big question marks. I am generally comfortable taking a chance on driving cars out of warranty but what I read even worries me. In an ICE you know what can go wrong, ballpark. Here all you see is “electrical system failure, park safely”. Its like squid game, unknown and unexpected death coming out of blue. And no one but a porsche dealer charging lawyer partner hourly rates for service shop can take a look at “what is wrong”. That uncertainty and vulnerability surrounding an owner approaching end of warranty period gives dealers an enormous leverage. Because they are the only ones who can approve or reject an extended warranty on a vehicle. So with their magic wand, they can turn a ticking bomb to a valuable driving proposition for another 3-4 years. That naturally results in massive trade-in vs CPO margins. As a result even “buy used if depreciation is too high for you” logic does work IMO. Depreciation faced by whoever is trading in their vehicle is at another world vs depreciation you see when shopping for a CPOd car. (The latter is a lot milder). I don’t see those “great deals” that everyone is talking about as a potential used CPO buyer. (And i don’t think those instances of people buying loaded $200K MSRP Turbo Ss for $130K count as a “deal”). There is no great “deal” for a CPOd PB+ RWD or 4S out there. Show me if you see one. Yes If you find a poor soul trying to sell his 2020 4S on his own on cars.com there is a deal. But then you don’t know if you can get a CPO on that vehicle and thats the whole problem. Only porsche can solve this. They need to come up with more sophisticated extended warranty programs. Eg any vehicle under XXK miles should be “guaranteed” to be eligible for at least a “powertrain” warranty up to a decade to provide certainty. At least give some certainty for the cars that are driven very “lightly” - which most taycans are.

 

[KLHubb]

I understand your position.....in my instance, I leased for 3 years, then bought my 2020 4S, and an 84 month Porsche warrantee($5k). The vehicle has been trouble-free to date and with the warrantee, I don't lose sleep over reliability. It is a wonderful vehicle, and I will enjoy it up to the end of the decade.

 

[whitex]

Taycan is a luxury sedan >$100K MSRP. In my entire life, except for a brief time in during the pandemic, selling such vehicles after a couple of years was always painful and time consuming unless you were willing to go wholesale/auction prices. Sometimes you could hide your loss by trading the car at a seemingly better price, but that was just the discount on the new car that was applied to increase the trade-in value instead of you getting a discount on the new car price. To add to this, all cars nowadays are selling slow, check out the discounts on brand new cars, compare that to prices above MSRP couple of years ago.

Expensive luxury cars are like boats, the two happiest days in the owner's life are the day they buy it, and the day they sell it. ?‍

 

[RGBArgee]

I admire your optimism

IMO there is going to be no "stability" for the next 10-15yrs (at least). None of the major parties has a plan for how to get the economy firing. So we will get deck chair shuffling on the Titanic for a while - until both major parties disappear up their own arseholes and our system is prompted to change fundamentally (this has been needed for a good 15yrs at least - Brexit's a sideshow in comparison. A symptom, not a cause).

Ref interest rates, I'd love to see them back at near zero...but currently they are not "high". When you look at the full history of interest rates they are "average".

I'm not really sure what uncertainty there currently is that if quelled (even IF our idiots in the houses could quell anything) would suddenly see enough demand to mop up 750 used Taycans. All the real levers are in Porsche's hands IMO...

• Be sensible in terms of supply of the new model (not sure how likely that is given the fines for not meeting EV targets each year)
• Stop being silly on finance rates....some aggressive financing options would see people taking a proper interest IMO
• Start seriously looking at battery warranties....break the mold and offer, say, 10yr/150k mile options...or allow them to be extended under similar terms to the rest of the car, and some of the nerves will subside
• Get better about pushing updates out to the cars to calm down the whole "it's obsolete" noise
  • All the software related efficiency gains...push them out
  • Improve PCM and have them push out to both generations
  • Commit to longer term updates

I think we need realistic optimism in our lives and whilst I agree it will probably take 10-15 years to fix much of what’s currently wrong a change of Government and hopefully more honesty and better use of finances will follow.

interest rates are higher than we have been used to for the last few years but you are right they are lower than the 30 year average of circa 7%. I remember paying 16% interest on my mortgage and getting a 25% pay rise in 1979/80.

The elephant in the room is most certainly Brexit and we need a programme like ‘Mr Bates vs The post office’ to really expose the lies that got us in what is a mess of our right wing politicians making. Manifesto in 2015 promised a second vote when a deal was known with an option to Remain - what happened is history but we need to revisit if for the good of the country and public demand another look.

 

[Murph7355]

I'll leave Brexit alone. I disagree with your view, but this forum's not the place for a deep and meaningful

Meanwhile, Porsche need to sort their own mess out with their demand/supply issues. Governments subsidising 100k+ cars is probably one of the least sensible things it should be doing. But such are the times we are living in!

 

[whitex]

Governments subsidising 100k+ cars is probably one of the least sensible things it should be doing. But such are the times we are living in!

Wouldn't a flood of cheap used Taycans and other EV's help further EV adoption in the UK?

 

[Murph7355]

Wouldn't a flood of cheap used Taycans and other EV's help further EV adoption in the UK?

Cheap is relative ?

 

[whitex]

Cheap is relative ?

True, but with a shortage of willing buyers, the prices should keep on dropping, no? Free market at work.

 

[FlyingPoint]

Hi, been a Taycan GTS ST owner for over a year now. I've listed the car for sale over a month ago and according to mobile.de the price was brilliant. I've reduced the price several times since listing with no interest generated so far. Is anyone else having trouble selling?

I know the face-lift came out, but considering the price increase I feel like a year old Taycan with just 30k km on it should be a bargain. I see a lot of other cars not being bought and I find it strange.

With almost 1,000 used Taycan's being offered on Auto Trader USA, there is a lot of competition, not to mention the new vehicles on the dealer lots. I have been following used GTS offerings and the drop in asking price has been amazing over the last few months. My guess, after the spring buying season, they will fall further.

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