Taycan Values.

[WuffvonTrips]

Feels like Porsche think the market is as low as it will go

I think there may be some strategic thinking in anticipation of the facelift being announced:
Too much concession on used prices will scare potential buyers off the facelift;
The facelift will be expected to dent used values (unless it comes with substantial price hikes), so better to wait till then before any more corrections to used prices, to give the impression that the only factor devaluing used Taycans is the arrival of the facelift.

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[whitex]

Oh I do agree with that, I thought it was a weird take to advocate for more exclusivity.

I agree about weird comment on exclusivity. Personally exclusivity to me is a negative - the more exclusive the car, the less parts available for it (the longer the wait), the less trained techs who know how to fix it, the less crowd sourced reverse engineered information out there how to do things. All bad things in my eyes. I buy cars for me to use, so if it meets my purposes I couldn't care less if everyone if the world got the same car as me, I would actually like it (again, no problems with parts, service, or even loaners if every single car in the world was a Taycan Turbo CT ).

My point re UK government incentives is that it seems not to encourage private acquisitions, but rather short-term business leases. That may have the trickle effect of accelerating depreciation (and thus drive 2nd hand adoption), but as a principle it seems wrong (“keep on buying new”, and it doesn't even benefit UK’s economy). (I am swimming far from the shore on this one.)

So it puts the burden of creating a second hand market to businesses. Maybe the government thought businesses spend more money on car fleets, so could be a good driver for EV adoption. I don't know the UK situation, but in the USA businesses on average keep cars for less time than private owners, so if you wanted to drive creation of a second-hand market, businesses is a ways to do it. I think it does help the UK economy some, since dealers make money both on selling and servicing the cars, taxes/registrations are paid too.

Let's see what happens to EV adoption in the USA now that the used EV market is growing bigger (mostly with Teslas for now) and prices are dropping. You can pick up a used Model 3 for under $20K today, in the mid teens if you're willing to buy a car with well over 100K miles on it. Heck, you can find a pre-late-2016 Tesla Model S in the low 20's which will come with free lifetime supercharging (early owners had transferrable unlimited free charging for life).

 

[whitex]

Yes, buying approved from OPC with warranty. I’ve found some in my ideal spec, but I think are still over priced by 5-7% from where the market is.

I’ve made offers on two cars, one at 5% under listed price and one at 4% under. Both cars have been at OPCs for 3+ months and have already come down 7% from where they were listed originally.

Feels like Porsche think the market is as low as it will go

They have the goods, you have the money. If your offers were rejected, they feel, at least at the moment, that 1they can do better, or at least have a chance to. Dealers often have a pre-determined price drop schedule. I've even come across ones which would tell customers how much they plan to lower the price and when. My guess it was to try to induce some FOMO in customers enticing them to buy at a higher price. Imagine your dealer would tell you that prices are going down 1% every month, you might give in after a month or two in fear that if you hold out to the 4% or 5% someone else will buy the car, plus waiting for something you really want can be painful.

 

[whitex]

In general the difficulty with EV is that technology is changing so quickly. Better battery technology. Longer range. Faster computers.

Repairs can only be done by the dealer.

Also the difference in high end EV models is very artificial. Are the two more powerful engines of the Turbo S worth 100 K more than the less powerful ones on the 4. The difference between the 4 and the 4S is only software voor 18 k. In ICE cars the difference between a 4 cylinder and a V8 was obvious and mechanically different. BWM and Merceds sell their top versions as M / AMG with specific settings and components that can’t be ordered in base models. That may be a better selling strategy.

Software defined features are here to stay. They are no different than mechanical features, other than replication cost which is $0. Other costs, such as engineering, testing, maintenance are same or higher. I notice the older generations seem to be having a problem with it. The new generation grew up on smart devices and apps, and they don't expect their iPhone to some with every possible app included for free in the price of the phone, just because the phone already includes all the hardware required to run the apps. They even buy virtual goods, which are not even software but a single bit somewhere in the configuration file which enables the virtual goods to be used.

Nobody complains when they buy a gaming console that they already own the hardware so all games should be free. So I think it's funny when people complain that they found out their car includes a seat heater but it's not enabled because they chose not to pay for the feature to the car manufacturer.

 

[f1eng]

Things change, but maybe not quickly…

My best friend decided in the early 1970s he would quite like a Porsche 911 wanted one around 1 year old but was only prepared to pay 50% of new price.

He found one within a month or two, it was a private sale with a little sold cigar brown colour but it was a 2.4l 911S with mechanical fuel injection iirc which would be worth a small fortune today. He paid around £3,500. again iirc

 

[Donar]

More than 300 used ones on Autoscout in Belgium. And lots of them private sellers which isn’t a good sign. You can do a great deal right now just make sure you buy one with Porsche warranty at an official dealer.

312 Belgium vs 279 Netherlands - interesting

In theory it doesn’t really matter if you buy at an official dealer or private seller as long as there is Porsche warranty on the car.

 

[MAPC]

312 Belgium vs 279 Netherlands - interesting

In theory it doesn’t really matter if you buy at an official dealer or private seller as long as there is Porsche warranty on the car.

100% agree here. I have purchased Porsches new (2), CPO from remote dealer (2), non-CPO from remote non- Porsche dealer (current Taycan), and privately (1).
All had remaining factory warranty and I was treated well by my local dealers exactly the same on each one- professionally, courteously and efficiently. Current Taycan is in for an expensive (but cosmetic) repair under warranty and they have taken on the work non questions asked and with a complimentary loaner for over a week.

 

[McgR]

312 Belgium vs 279 Netherlands - interesting

In theory it doesn’t really matter if you buy at an official dealer or private seller as long as there is Porsche warranty on the car.

True. But you won’t be on their priority list I you didn’t buy the car at that dealership. And the chances of getting a good replacement car would also be smaller. But it will be fixed indeed. Another thing to consider would be extending the warranty. Is that possible when purchases at a second hand dealership?

 

[Donar]

Another thing to consider would be extending the warranty. Is that possible when purchases at a second hand dealership?

Yes up to 15 years 200.000km.

As long as it is in (extended) warranty you can extend for 1-3 years. If it is no longer under warranty it is also possible but you first need to have the car checked for which you most likely need to pay an additional fee.

 

[achaudh]

I’m currently in the market for a preowned Taycan, and the market does seem to be flooded. I’ve spoken to 4 different OPCs who have cars in stock for 4+ months but are unwilling to discuss discounts.

One specifically have tens of Taycans parked up at the back of their car park, none have been prepared for sale, and some have been there 4+ months.

Makes me wonder how long this can carry on before they have to start discounting to shift them!

That's exactly my experience as well here in the US. I reached out to several Porsche dealers in different states and made offers on CPOs but they did not even come back with a counter. I think they are waiting for the refresh as well. I mentioned about the refresh and my POV to one of the dealers about existing models depreciating even more once refresh comes out, I did not hear a peep from him after that.

 

[MAPC]

That's exactly my experience as well here in the US. I reached out to several Porsche dealers in different states and made offers on CPOs but they did not even come back with a counter. I think they are waiting for the refresh as well. I mentioned about the refresh and my POV to one of the dealers about existing models depreciating even more once refresh comes out, I did not hear a peep from him after that.

Most dealers in the US are on fixed pricing these days…particularly for CPO

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

Software defined features are here to stay. They are no different than mechanical features, other than replication cost which is $0. Other costs, such as engineering, testing, maintenance are same or higher. I notice the older generations seem to be having a problem with it. The new generation grew up on smart devices and apps, and they don't expect their iPhone to some with every possible app included for free in the price of the phone, just because the phone already includes all the hardware required to run the apps. They even buy virtual goods, which are not even software but a single bit somewhere in the configuration file which enables the virtual goods to be used.

Nobody complains when they buy a gaming console that they already own the hardware so all games should be free. So I think it's funny when people complain that they found out their car includes a seat heater but it's not enabled because they chose not to pay for the feature to the car manufacturer.

I actually agree with @McgR on this one. I’m well aware of the cost of developing software, or maintaining a number of different configurations. But the point here is one of spread - is the turbo really worth 2x the base model? The market seems to have spoken on that one, as the depreciation hits the higher trims far worse. We can make the very clear case that a GT model of the 911 is so different that its development cost (on top of the base model) is significant, and enough to justify the 2-3x asking price. (Rarity is another aspect.) That case vanishes with the Taycan range - it is the same car, with a larger motor.

For all we know, Porsche developed the Taycan at the top trim and detuned that for lower models; that is, it could be the price of the Taycan turbo is the real reflection of the cost of the project + profit margin, and the lower models are sold at cost. But somehow I find that hard to believe, because it would mean they’re either losing money on the lower models, or their profit margin is the spread/100%. So they truly asked for much more than they could have, but without enough “meat” to justify the diff, and in large enough numbers to forego exclusivity.

As an aside, Porsche is not new to this sharing of platforms or components across a vast price gap: early 911 and 912, or the Boxster and 996.1. At the time, they said the Boxster will pay for the parts, and the 911 will pay for development. Made perfect business sense, but incensed the 911 buyers, who wanted exclusivity for their higher acquisition price.

Lastly, not sure the console + games is an apt comparison; if, say, you were talking about FSD as an add-on, that makes sense as a high-price bit of software: it’s a separate project/a big cost for the manufacturer. But 2 different motors + ancillaries, running on the same chassis, battery, with identical software is not really “different” or an add-on; it’s just different parameters.

 

[Crazymind]

https://www.reuters.com/business/au...rtz-sell-about-20000-evs-us-fleet-2024-01-11/

 

[Throb]

Yes up to 15 years 200.000km.

As long as it is in (extended) warranty you can extend for 1-3 years. If it is no longer under warranty it is also possible but you first need to have the car checked for which you most likely need to pay an additional fee.

Any idea what it costs to extend the warranty on a Taycan in the NL? Mine isn't due to expire until July 2025, but I have no idea what they ask.

 

[Donar]

Any idea what it costs to extend the warranty on a Taycan in the NL? Mine isn't due to expire until July 2025, but I have no idea what they ask.

Car was 11 months old with 6.300km (no idea if that impact the premium). 13 months standard warranty left and 1 year extended warranty was ~1.400 euro.

Don’t know for 2 and 3 year, the 1 year was part of the deal.

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