Why US drivers may be thinking about EVs all wrong.... BBC article....

[whitex]

Baby Boomers are resistant to change? Who’d have thought?

I don't think this is a generational thing. I know boomers who drive electric and younger generations who don't want one, including my own generation. Heck, my parents and in-laws drive Teslas and love it. Two factors I think which make people unnecessarily hesitant, one is people don't like change and giving up capabilities they believe they have even if they will never use them (how many off road vehicles on highways which never, ever drive off road), so suddenly they want 500 mile range, even if they never drive that far without stopping. Second, people tend to compare against what they know, so for example they tend to equate gas stations and DCFC, thinking there are nowhere near the DCFC stations compared to gas stations. The completely forget that with home or destination charging, most EVs rarely visit a DCFC station. My wife is on her 3rd EV since 2016, she DC charged 5 times, ever (and all her EV's have had free DC charging). My mother in law has only owned her Tesla for 2-3 years but has never once visited a DC charger. Perhaps EV marketing should be asking "how long can your car drive without visiting a gas station?". EV's can ( and do) go for 10's of thousands of miles without DC charging at an electric gas station!

My personal opinion is EV's are great, but not for everyone yet. If you drive more than 200 miles a day, or you don't have home or work charging, EV may not be the best choice for you. While I don't mind DC charging 20-30 minute break for charging every 2-3 hrs of driving on a trip, I would dread having to go to a charger every few days for 30-45 minutes.

So if you have charging at home or work and drive less than 200 miles a day outside of road tripping, I think EV's work great. Small caveat, this assumes you're not traveling into some DC charging deserts. If you drive into places like the Canadian Northwest Territories, get a diesel.

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[f1eng]

Speak for yourself.

I need to stop more often these days but my days of selecting the fastest route and only stopping to refuel and get a coffee happened before EVs were available.
Now I mourn than no sat-nav has “nice route any relaxed person would choose” option since the fast route tends to use the least interesting roads.

I now use a map to study a potential route, Zap-map or ABRP to check for chargers on a route that looks interesting then either don’t bother with sat nav at all or force it to do the “right thing” using waypoints.

My wife loves the Taycan because of the massage seat and the stop at cafes to charge, mind you she is petite and the headrest in completely the wrong place for her comfort so she made a pillow…

 

[kempez]

I have heard a lot and I mean a lot of actual hate from people I know about EV's and especially very recently. Pointing to all the usual BS: all EV's go on fire, EV's are nowhere near as green as they claim to be, batteries are terrible and only last 3 years....all of the tropes. The negativity towards them has gone through the roof in the UK media the last year. I have had visceral hate directed at me secondhand from people who have read these articles and believed every word. It's starting to really get on my nerves.

Daily Mail etc are destroying people's confidence or even basic understanding of EV's

 

[f1eng]

Daily Mail etc are destroying people's confidence or even basic understanding of EV's

The Daily Mail has always been filled with hate, wind ups and frequently downright lies. I think some people just love to spew bile.

 

[gtm]

Speak for yourself.

Oh I was referring to my copilot. My bladder capacity knows no bounds.

 

[Chas1]

Most people look upon a vehicle as an appliance. I realize this is a heretical idea to Porsche owners but with many years of keeping my customers' cars on the road I've learned that most just don't care a whole lot about their cars. They expect it to fulfill a purpose without any extra work. Right now EVs do not function well as an every day appliance. Most of the driving public just doesn't want to deal with the extra work EV driving entails, particularly on a road trip. Add on the "generic fear of the unknown" and wide spread adoption is a ways off. The reliable, convenient, charging infrastructure has to extend beyond Tesla for mass adoption to happen.

I agree with this in part. However my experience is that plugging into my 7kw charger at home takes about 10s and then I’m good to go in the morning. I never have to worry whether I have enough fuel and it’s a definite bonus not to have visit an expensive gas station. Longer road trips at least in uk might need 15-20 minutes to top up but so far in 10,000 miles I’ve never had a problem. Away from home charging can be combined with breaking up the journey. A pleasant surprise for me is that driving an ev on longer road trips is much less taxing, making longer trips less tiring. So I think there are few downsides and probably more upside to ev ownership. I can see issues with towing so for some, for the present, EV’s still need a greater energy capacity. But that will come.

 

[gtm]

I agree with this in part. However my experience is that plugging into my 7kw charger at home takes about 10s and then I’m good to go in the morning. I never have to worry whether I have enough fuel and it’s a definite bonus not to have visit an expensive gas station. Longer road trips at least in uk might need 15-20 minutes to top up but so far in 10,000 miles I’ve never had a problem. Away from home charging can be combined with breaking up the journey. A pleasant surprise for me is that driving an ev on longer road trips is much less taxing, making longer trips less tiring. So I think there are few downsides and probably more upside to ev ownership. I can see issues with towing so for some, for the present, EV’s still need a greater energy capacity. But that will come.

Oh I pretty much agree with you, with the one difference being that CCS1 charging in the US is seemingly a step or two behind that in the UK/EU. Would be in complete agreement if I was still driving a Tesla (they really are easy to live with). You and I have put in the home level 2 charger and, although actually a very easy step, an unknown process to a prospective EV owner. As far as long distance driving I agree it is much less taxing in an EV. Smooth, quiet and the 15-20 minute charging stops are great. Completely eliminates the mental "splash and dash" attitude. But if I'm an ICE driver having no DC charging experience it sounds like a big time waste even though in reality it's an extra 5 or 10 minutes.

My main transportation is going to be an EV. I've joined the club and actually enjoy the extra work that goes into EV travel. But for the majority of vehicle owners to adopt EVs the EV process has to be almost mindless.

 

[Chas1]

Oh I pretty much agree with you, with the one difference being that CCS1 charging in the US is seemingly a step or two behind that in the UK/EU. Would be in complete agreement if I was still driving a Tesla (they really are easy to live with). You and I have put in the home level 2 charger and, although actually a very easy step, an unknown process to a prospective EV owner. As far as long distance driving I agree it is much less taxing in an EV. Smooth, quiet and the 15-20 minute charging stops are great. Completely eliminates the mental "splash and dash" attitude. But if I'm an ICE driver having no DC charging experience it sounds like a big time waste even though in reality it's an extra 5 or 10 minutes.

My main transportation is going to be an EV. I've joined the club and actually enjoy the extra work that goes into EV travel. But for the majority of vehicle owners to adopt EVs the EV process has to be almost mindless.

Definitely on the same wavelength especially enjoying the journey planning! This might be unusual but I like the Porsche nav system. It seems even better after the latest software update. I really like the charging points shown on the map with number of stalls and how many are free. I can’t see me ever having an ICE for my daily driver again. Not that I don’t love my classics……

 

[violuma]

My wife loves the Taycan because of the massage seat and the stop at cafes to charge, mind you she is petite and the headrest in completely the wrong place for her comfort so she made a pillow…

This is the part where I admit that you talked me not only out of the black interior but also into the massage seats, in the hope that my wife will view them as your wife does. In that spirit, I would like to share her solution to that headrest problem. She somehow found a little pillow that is designed for exactly this purpose, as it has a fabric belt that wraps around the car's headrest and can cinch in place.

Now I'm not sure that your wife would necessarily want the Japanese "Monokuro Boo" character on her pillow, but I am sure there are other options as well. Spy v. Spy (assuming familiarity with MAD magazine) cartoon pig characters are sort of cute, however.

 

[Jonathan S.]

[...] One road trip and you realize your battery has more capacity than your bladder. [...]

The exactly the kind of EV propaganda that prevented me from buying an EV.
And now that we do have two, it's the kind of EV propaganda that has me still holding onto an ICE.
Even for drivers (and/or their passengers) who have limited bladder range, any CCS1 recharging stop in New England (other than the Magic Docks in Enfield CT) had better be budgeting a full hour. I'm not exaggerating at all.
That's if a CCS1 station is along the route. Plenty of hiking and skiing itineraries in New England for a daytrip that are beyond any EV range yet have no charging (whether L2 or DCFC) at the destination. So even a four-hour roundtrip adds a budgeted one-hour charging stop.

 

[gtm]

The exactly the kind of EV propaganda that prevented me from buying an EV.
And now that we do have two, it's the kind of EV propaganda that has me still holding onto an ICE.
Even for drivers (and/or their passengers) who have limited bladder range, any CCS1 recharging stop in New England (other than the Magic Docks in Enfield CT) had better be budgeting a full hour. I'm not exaggerating at all.
That's if a CCS1 station is along the route. Plenty of hiking and skiing itineraries in New England for a daytrip that are beyond any EV range yet have no charging (whether L2 or DCFC) at the destination. So even a four-hour roundtrip adds a budgeted one-hour charging stop.

Not sure what propaganda I'm espousing nor sure how you are taking it. Anti EV saying the range is too short, or that my contention that it exceeds your bladder capacity is wrong? There is no question which side you are on concerning the CCS1 charging system. It can be complete crap and I'm certainly not going to say otherwise. I will say though that it might be improving - slowly, very slowly. Tesla MagicDocs are starting to populate the charging map and on my last NJ to Fl trip every EA station was working and all gave better than 100kW. A huge improvement on the earlier Fl to NJ run.

So I don't know if we agree completely or if my battery vs bladder range comment struck a wrong cord with you.

 

[Jonathan S.]

The bladder range is often used as (pro-) EV propaganda.
As if (setting aside for many drivers how bladder range is far longer than EV range) emptying a bladder takes as long as the typical full hour that must be budgeted for a CCS1 charging stop in New England.
And as if nobody ever wants to drive two hours straight to a destination lacking any charging (whether CCS1 or just AC L2) then drive two hours straight back home.

The only improvements in CCS1 charging in New England over the past year has been the Magic Dock in Enfield CT. That will be huge for skier traffic coming up I-91 to VT ski resorts.
Plus one new EA in southern NH. At four units, slightly larger than the typical inadequate EA four-stall layout. Half of them were broken immediately upon the grand opening. They all seem to be working now, but here's a typical PlugShare review: "Available, but no chargers delivering much speed. Most around 40-50. Got up to 100 for a few minutes."

Vermont is finally building out a 34-unit CCS1 network. From funding allocated in 2019 and 2020. Each station will have only two units. All of them just 50kW.

My last NJ EA visit back in September topped out it in the low 60s.
And this was after researching was seemed like the best EA.

Not much happening from companies actually motivated to spend their own money, since why bother given that federal money is coming ... soon, sort of:
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/12/05/congress-ev-chargers-billions-00129996

 

[whitex]

The exactly the kind of EV propaganda that prevented me from buying an EV.
And now that we do have two, it's the kind of EV propaganda that has me still holding onto an ICE.
Even for drivers (and/or their passengers) who have limited bladder range, any CCS1 recharging stop in New England (other than the Magic Docks in Enfield CT) had better be budgeting a full hour. I'm not exaggerating at all.
That's if a CCS1 station is along the route. Plenty of hiking and skiing itineraries in New England for a daytrip that are beyond any EV range yet have no charging (whether L2 or DCFC) at the destination. So even a four-hour roundtrip adds a budgeted one-hour charging stop.

What's the 1hr breakdown? Actual charging time, waiting for free charger, driving out of the way, locating the DCFC location, long food ingestion/ejection lines (restaurant/bathroom), other?

 

[gtm]

The bladder range is often used as (pro-) EV propaganda.
As if (setting aside for many drivers how bladder range is far longer than EV range) emptying a bladder takes as long as the typical full hour that must be budgeted for a CCS1 charging stop in New England.
And as if nobody ever wants to drive two hours straight to a destination lacking any charging (whether CCS1 or just AC L2) then drive two hours straight back home.

The only improvements in CCS1 charging in New England over the past year has been the Magic Dock in Enfield CT. That will be huge for skier traffic coming up I-91 to VT ski resorts.
Plus one new EA in southern NH. At four units, slightly larger than the typical inadequate EA four-stall layout. Half of them were broken immediately upon the grand opening. They all seem to be working now, but here's a typical PlugShare review: "Available, but no chargers delivering much speed. Most around 40-50. Got up to 100 for a few minutes."

Vermont is finally building out a 34-unit CCS1 network. From funding allocated in 2019 and 2020. Each station will have only two units. All of them just 50kW.

My last NJ EA visit back in September topped out it in the low 60s.
And this was after researching was seemed like the best EA.

Not much happening from companies actually motivated to spend their own money, since why bother given that federal money is coming ... soon, sort of:
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/12/05/congress-ev-chargers-billions-00129996

So my takeaway is that you bought the wrong car for New England. I completely understand that you wanted one of the best driving cars on the road. Who wouldn't? But the CCS1 infrastructure apparently sucks in New England. Doubly so for someone who wants to travel in the cold to places that do not support EV charging. Yet despite your frustration with CCS1 charging you have two CCS1 EVs? I hesitate to suggest one of them should have been a Tesla. Tesla's charging infrastructure is many years ahead of CCS1. Porsche not signing on to NACS is a real sore spot with me. Doing so would probably alleviate a lot of your, and others', frustration with charging away from home.

Having to spend an hour getting a slow charge isn't ideal. I feel your pain but suspect it will be a while before CCS1 charging becomes convenient and easy.

 

[Jonathan S.]

Tesla, yes, many times my phone has navigated to the Model S purchase screen. So many good reasons to buy ... and so many reasons not to (even aside from Elon).

As for why the doubling down on CCS1 in a region with lousy CCS1 DCFC ...
... bought a 2023 BMW i4 M50 somewhat on a whim as a plot to wean her away from her beloved Subaru Impreza.
She was moderately outraged when I returned in May from a 50-mile bike ride with the EV (too tired to bike home, hah!) I had secretly ordered three months earlier.

Fortunately she ended up really liking it!
Unfortunately that meant I could seldom drive it (after an initial 3,000-mile test period).

So I sold her Subaru (with her knowledge, but without telling her why) then bought a used 2022 4CT for myself (taking delivery at home around 3:30 in the morning, for max shock & awe value when she saw a Porsche that had somehow materialized overnight in my garage.)

Kept my 2022 Audi A6 Allroad given the CCS1 generalized dysfunction here (and given the Taycan’s rather mixed reliability record).

Note that all of the above is entirely unlike me, much to the surprise of both my wife and our daughter. (Otherwise I’m the same as ever, even doing the same biking routes and backcountry ski tours over and over again...)

Recent examples of how I concluded that about an hour needs to be budgeted for any CCS1 stop around here (with special attention of course to the luxury feature of a restroom):

This past Wednesday, Tewksbury MA EA, took the CT since I was in absolutely no rush and had plenty of work to keep me occupied. All four units were working, but in use.
Only one person was ahead of me. She was puzzled why the CHAdeMO plug wouldn’t fit in her Mach-E. I explained that it was a relic from another era, and that even if she had a Leaf or Mitsubishi, couldn’t be used simultaneously with another plug.
Even with only person ahead of me in line (conceptual line of course, no actual physical line), had to wait about half-an-hour. Three Bolt Uber drivers were charging . I have nothing against them – they have as much a right as me to charge to whatever % they want, at whatever slow speed they can muster, all the way up to 100%. And in any normal marketplace, such demand would induce other companies to build more chargers. But since EA is the civil consent decree version of a prison work release program, EA obviously doesn’t care about such market forces.
And other companies would be foolish to spend their own money now when $7.5b in federal $ was approved in 2021.
On the plus side, the Walmart greeter directly to me to the restroom, which was quite adequate in emptying my bladder while my CT took its time charged at a rate in the 80s.

Ludlow VT, coming back from hiking, needed only ~10kWh, and since ski season was still a way’s off, no worries about competition for the two new chargers directly off of the secondary highway. Spent over half-an-hour on the phone with Blink trying to figure out why the charger would not work. Turned out it would not work because it was broken. (Note that Blink demands to know the serial number. “You have only two chargers in Ludlow Vermont!” “I have no way of looking up that without the serial number.”)
The app said the other charger was in use and hence not available, but actually that one worked. At only the mid 40s, so not too much slower than its ostensible 50kW rating. (The charger’s display though read in the mid 20s.)
This is one of 17 stations now being built with state funding approved in 2019 and 2020. All at 50kW.
Blink seems to generate a lot of revenue by charging a minimum of $20 for each session in advance. And then not refunding the balance. No matter what Blink might tell you on the phone. Fortunately USAA obtained a refund for me. Not that I really cared about eleven bucks, but I just wanted Blink to know how much I despise the company. Well, maybe nobody at Blink cares about all the charge backs. But worth a try.
Restroom facility behind the charger worked just fine, especially at night, with the adjacent hotel closed.

NJ EA, might have been Elizabeth. Spend a long time researching this one, since many options. I was right to choose a station with eight chargers, since although busy, did not have to wait for a plug, nor did anyone else have to other than just a few minutes.
Restrooms at the mall were a bit of a walk, but at max 61kW, I had plenty of time.
Add in about ten more minutes roundtrip driving diversion, plus the need for lots of kWh, and this stop took more than an hour.
Bonus points for the taunting of a TSCN station in the same parking lot.

Seabrook NH EA, didn’t get out of the 30s. Fortunately I didn’t need to charge – wife wanted to get coffee, and the first Dunkin Donuts along our route just happened to have an EA. But that would have been far longer than an hour if we needed a major replenishment.
Bonus points again for the taunting of a TSCN station in the same parking lot.

West Lebanon NH EA, hope to never go back there again, as reports on Labor Day were that all four chargers were broken.
Bonus points yet again for the taunting of a TSCN station in the same parking lot.

Manchester NH EA, my in-law’s live nearby, so would be a great option for us, but this station goes through long periods with two or three chargers broken, out of four. Even better would be the EVgo at the Bedford NH Whole Foods, where we often shop on our visits, so that 50kW rate wouldn’t be all the bad (and the Whole Foods restrooms are generally good), but the charger there has been broken since March.

Auburn Mall MA EA, my wife’s i4 hit ... wait, what 161kw?!? And on a 150kW charger. Fortunately our other three visits there have been half that rate at most, hah, so faith in EA is restored.
The mall itself is kind of low-rent (heavy security presence), but the restroom is fine, and the burrito place is excellent. (Clerk could barely understand English, and I could barely understand his accent, but that just added to the authenticity – highly recommended!)

The other only truly fast charge on the i4 has been ~200kW when my wife inadvertently went to an ABB R&D facility. The security guard’s arrival was also fast, but at that charging speed, didn’t matter!

Magic Docks of course work as promised. Brewster NY has an adjacent Dunkin Donuts with a nice restroom and okay bagels. Enfield CT has an adjacent Big Y supermarket with unfortunately limited hours, just like the Big Y near my house. (I think the limited hours came out of the pandemic.) The adjacent Walgreen’s was still open, but the nearby bushes worked fine too.

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