hmmm - my lovely Taycan is limited to 220 miles range - [Edit] I think it's the tires…

[NC_Taycan]

It does - less use of regen = less range. This will go away around 500 miles.
Colder battery = less range.

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[feye]

What about the brake wear-in period during which recuperation is reduced or disabled? Does not not affect the range?

If you perform a few launch controls with hard breaking, recup should come quickly.

 

[submatrix]

What about the brake wear-in period during which recuperation is reduced or disabled? Does not not affect the range?

True, I was just speaking in the context of the Porsche range estimate.

 

[RBGtaycan]

I just got my CT4S friday and i’m surprised to only read 365 km (228mi) @100%SOC. Should i be concerned ?
i do have 21 CT wheels with pirelli tires.

if i select range mode instead of normal mode i get an extra 6/7 miles or 10 km, no more (AC off)

Does estimated range @100% soc take into account historic driving ?

it appears to adjust for driving..mine started at < 200 miles new and is now at ~260 miles (accurately) on the small battery. Good luck with the new car!

 

[RBGtaycan]

it appears to adjust for driving..mine started at < 200 miles new and is now at ~260 miles (accurately) on the small battery. Good luck with the new car!

btw, ECO mode on the AC works fine and improves mileage..give it a try

 

[John89]

The range "guesstimate" is total bullshit. My car was showing as much as 234 miles of "range" @ 85% charge through most of the summer. I got a high of about 218 miles once or twice in actual range (I drive my car down to almost 0 miles).I would see about 205 - 209 in actual range. Now that the weather is getting colder, I am showing a "guesstimate" of 214 miles of range @ 85%. The other day I got 175 miles of actual range (@85% charge). And I have noticed this: When the car is between 219 to 100 miles of range left, the range estimate stays very close to what was "Guesstimated". Once I drive down below the 100 mile mark, the range starts dropping off much more quickly. I think Porsche is real cute and Pads the range estimate on the high end of the charge and then adjust it down to reality as you deplete the battery. Probably did dome study and found that most people charge every night and don't actually see what the REAL range is on the car.

Best range I ever got, ever, with NO highway driving, 75 degrees, in ECO mode, at 100% charge was.......242 miles.

 

[John89]

It does - less use of regen = less range. This will go away around 500 miles.
Colder battery = less range.

I have never seen any appreciable benefit to the regen. I think its BS

 

[madeyong]

I have never seen any appreciable benefit to the regen. I think its BS

I agree with this to a certain extent and I think there was an article listed in a previous thread that talked about it as well. Porsche too thinks that engaging regen when just lifting off the throttle is less efficient than coasting. Indeed, that is why it regen is off by default and you can coast like normal. Even when it is turned on there is only slight regen compared to other EVs. However, having the car engage regen in the first instance when stepping on the brake and using the cars kinetic energy to slow you down vs. using the discs 100% of the time and “wasting” that energy is not a bad thing. The auto regen feature is basically the same thing, where it engages regen in situations where you would otherwise be forced to step on the brake. I think the whole thing is very clever and implemented well. At the end of the day if there was no regen braking at all (as opposed to what happens when regen is set to off) I think by definition you would see less range.

 

[Jhenson29]

I have never seen any appreciable benefit to the regen. I think its BS

What are you basing that on? The car uses regen when you brake, so how exactly would you compare with and without regen to assess that it’s “BS”?

 

[JimBob]

A quick calculation gives something like this. (Correct me if I am wrong)

A Taycan can generate up to a maximum of 265 kW at maximum braking.
If you assume you can get this for about 2 seconds you can put about .15 kWh into the battery.

265 * (2/(60*60)) = .15

Doesn't sound like much and this doesn't include losses. Certainly no where near enough to replace the energy used by a hard acceleration.

So an effect? Yes. But not likely a very big one.

I remember an article on regenerative braking in subway trains that went something like this. If a train passes another train and brakes, it can put enough power back into the rail to turn the lights on in the other train for a few seconds.

 

[madeyong]

A quick calculation gives something like this. (Correct me if I am wrong)

A Taycan can generate up to a maximum of 265 kW at maximum braking.
If you assume you can get this for about 2 seconds you can put about .15 kWh into the battery.

265 * (2/(60*60)) = .15

Doesn't sound like much and this doesn't include losses. Certainly no where near enough to replace the energy used by a hard acceleration.

So an effect? Yes. But not likely a very big one.

I remember an article on regenerative braking in subway trains that went something like this. If a train passes another train and brakes, it can put enough power back into the rail to turn the lights on in the other train for a few seconds.

I’m not a “math guy” so I have no beef with your numbers but isn’t there a cumulative effect you are missing? You are only talking about 2 seconds of braking. If you do that 7 times that is a full kWh back into the battery, right? Over time and charge cycles that adds up I would imagine and equals less energy that needs to come from the grid during recharging over the life of the car. Maybe it’s not that significant but I would think it has to be worth it or why would the manufacturers go through the expense to put the tech in there in the first place?

 

[JimBob]

I’m not a “math guy” so I have no beef with your numbers but isn’t there a cumulative effect you are missing? You are only talking about 2 seconds of braking. If you do that 7 times that is a full kWh back into the battery, right? Over time and charge cycles that adds up I would imagine and equals less energy that needs to come from the grid during recharging over the life of the car. Maybe it’s not that significant but I would think it has to be worth it or why would the manufacturers go through the expense to put the tech in there in the first place?

Yeah, but you accelerated 7 times. The only big pickup I think you can get is from driving down a mountain for an extended period of time, where gravity is supplying the additional energy to the battery.

As to why manufacturers do it. An electric motor can be turned into a generator very easily and cheaply with the appropriate power electronics.

 

[madeyong]

Yeah, but you accelerated 7 times. The only big pickup I think you can get is from driving down a mountain for an extended period of time, where gravity is supplying the additional energy to the battery.

As to why manufacturers do it. An electric motor can be turned into a generator very easily and cheaply with the appropriate power electronics.

Understood. I guess my supposition was that you would be accelerating the 7 times regardless, so you may as well have the regen on the braking and get that cumulative effect rather than not having it.

 

[NC_Taycan]

Regenerative recovery of kinetic energy is the #1 efficiency gain of a hybrid or electric drivetrain. In Taycan, when you slow down, the first 260 kW equivalent of deceleration is provided by the electric motor. However no conversion of energy is 100% efficient - so accelerating then slowing using regen will be less efficient than just coasting. 2nd law of thermodynamics for the win.

Still, regen is no BS. Go do a few laps on a track with hard deceleration (far beyond what regen can recover) and watch how fast your battery goes down.

 

[Jhenson29]

A quick calculation gives something like this. (Correct me if I am wrong)

A Taycan can generate up to a maximum of 265 kW at maximum braking.
If you assume you can get this for about 2 seconds you can put about .15 kWh into the battery.

265 * (2/(60*60)) = .15

Doesn't sound like much and this doesn't include losses. Certainly no where near enough to replace the energy used by a hard acceleration.

So an effect? Yes. But not likely a very big one.

I remember an article on regenerative braking in subway trains that went something like this. If a train passes another train and brakes, it can put enough power back into the rail to turn the lights on in the other train for a few seconds.

I’m not sure that’s the right way to think about it. The values are fairly arbitrary.

I would just look at the kinetic energy of the car and then consider that if the deceleration rate doesn’t exceed the max braking recup, then decreases in kinetic energy are recovered (with losses).

There are other braking forces as well, like rolling resistance and air drag, but you can see how low these are compared to typical pedal braking by allowing the car to coast.

More generally, I like to imagine a graph of the power and then consider the energy integration. I think that gives the best illustration.

@madeyong is right about both it being cumulative as well as the energy expended for acceleration taking place regardless. While the acceleration will have an affect if looking at overall battery charge, it has no bearing when considering the magnitude of benefit of recup on it’s own.

Maybe it’s not that significant but I would think it has to be worth it or why would the manufacturers go through the expense to put the tech in there in the first place?

There are really several reasons. Energy recovery is only one of them.

See this post:

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/recuperation-modes.5718/#post-79271

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