Porsche Taycan vs. 2020 Tesla Model S: Which luxury EV is best - Roadshow

[feye]

Only two things bugged me:

1) Pronunciation of the name of the car...every....time....

The pronunciation was such a turn off that I switched it off! Is it really so hard to say Taycan?

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[HigherLevel]

If we look at the stats in matured EV market, you are spot on!

You may have a point, but you picked really bad evidence to support it. The factory was shut down for over a month, stores closed, etc...so they had barely any deliveries. Check Jan/Feb for a more accurate comparison.

 

[Dee]

You may have a point, but you picked really bad evidence to support it. The factory was shut down for over a month, stores closed, etc...so they had barely any deliveries. Check Jan/Feb for a more accurate comparison.

Porsche reported a growth of 57% in May while other manufacturers reported numbers below zero...
Until May 2020 there are more Cayennes sold than over whole 2019!
Also a lot of Taycans.

Source: (in Dutch unfortunately)

https://www.autoweek.nl/autonieuws/...utoverkopen-2020-slechts-een-merk-in-de-plus/

 

[HigherLevel]

Porsche reported a growth of 57% in May while other manufacturers reported numbers below zero...
Until May 2020 there are more Cayennes sold than over whole 2019!
Also a lot of Taycans.

Source: (in Dutch unfortunately)

https://www.autoweek.nl/autonieuws/...utoverkopen-2020-slechts-een-merk-in-de-plus/

Yeah we're just talking EVs. I'll be curious to see how many Taycans get sold this year in the USA. Right now our dealer only sold like less than 10 so far this year. I don't know if that's because they received so few (definitely a part of it) or people aren't buying. I suspect they just didn't get many. You can choose from 30 different 911's on the lot, but they have zero Taycans.

 

[Reg]

You may have a point, but you picked really bad evidence to support it. The factory was shut down for over a month, stores closed, etc...so they had barely any deliveries. Check Jan/Feb for a more accurate comparison.

March is still very relevant since the shut down didn't happen until the end of the month, they had a large inventory and they had contactless delivery even after the shutdown. In addition, it isn't as if the factory was pumping out cars in the last week that would make it to the showrooms.

 

[HigherLevel]

March is still very relevant since the shut down didn't happen until the end of the month, they had a large inventory and they had contactless delivery even after the shutdown. In addition, it isn't as if the factory was pumping out cars in the last week that would make it to the showrooms.

Sure, but you realize he posted May deliveries, right?

 

[Reg]

Sure, but you realize he posted May deliveries, right?

sure, but he highlighted the 2020 deliveries - and most companies closed down at similar times to Tesla.

You realize said Jan/Feb and ignored March, right?

 

[HigherLevel]

sure, but he highlighted the 2020 deliveries - and most companies closed down at similar times to Tesla.

You realize said Jan/Feb and ignored March, right?

Right. I guess for people who don't know how Tesla works, they deliver cars to Europe in weird waves. Basically when ships arrive. You can have months go by with zero listed sales, but it doesn't really mean anything about the demand. In the USA, they sold thousands of them in Q1.

 

[Reg]

Right. I guess for people who don't know how Tesla works, they deliver cars to Europe in weird waves. Basically when ships arrive.

A lot of manufacturers have cycles where they ship cars, I am still waiting for my Taycan to get on a boat although it was built a month ago. No different than when I ordered a MB 2 years ago. Tesla has this weird habit of making normal things sound like it is unique to them (oh, we have to paint the cars and the cars may be exposed to road salt, oh, we have to ship cars to other locations and it takes time for boats to arrive, oh, our factory closed due to COVID, etc)

 

[HigherLevel]

A lot of manufacturers have cycles where they ship cars, I am still waiting for my Taycan to get on a boat although it was built a month ago. No different than when I ordered a MB 2 years ago. Tesla has this weird habit of making normal things sound like it is unique to them (oh, we have to paint the cars and the cars may be exposed to road salt, oh, we have to ship cars to other locations and it takes time for boats to arrive, oh, our factory closed due to COVID, etc)

Except the vast majority of their cars have only a handful of options. Normally they should just have stock available like other mass automakers do. No one is waiting on their Ford to hit a ship and get delivered. You and I custom-ordered a Porsche with probably 100+ options to choose from. It's a little different.

Anyway, the point I made, and am still making, which is still correct: We can't extrapolate any meaningful conclusions from sales data in one country in Europe on how the Taycan will do against the S because there hasn't been stock available of both at the same time. I think we need to see actual legitimate on-the-lot stock of both cars for a few months to see how they fare against each other.

 

[feye]

Except the vast majority of their cars have only a handful of options. Normally they should just have stock available like other mass automakers do. No one is waiting on their Ford to hit a ship and get delivered. You and I custom-ordered a Porsche with probably 100+ options to choose from. It's a little different.

Anyway, the point I made, and am still making, which is still correct: We can't extrapolate any meaningful conclusions from sales data in one country in Europe on how the Taycan will do against the S because there hasn't been stock available of both at the same time. I think we need to see actual legitimate on-the-lot stock of both cars for a few months to see how they fare against each other.

I think the Norwegian market is very interesting because it is way ahead in terms of EV penetration with 43,1% share. Car buyers there don't choose between gas powered or EV, they choose between EVs.

The highlighted numbers are for 2020 total. elbilstatistikk.no

If you look at that what is your take on the expensive not performant Audi SUV e-tron outselling M3?

 

[Taycan4S]

I live in Norway and there really is no competition between ICE cars and EV cars. ICE cars are about twice the price here compared to the rest of the world due to taxes. EV's have no tax or VAT (yet) so they are much cheeper. What also points in the direction of EV's is that optional extras (from factory) are without VAT while 25% VAT is added on extras for ICE cars.

Example:
A nice spec'ed Taycan 4S (lets say $120.000) cost about 1/2 the price of a 911 4S with the same options ($220.000-$240.000) here in Norway.

No wonder we're going EV'in I've been driving Tesla Performance models since P85D came out in 2015 when I sold my Porsche 964 C4. Now that the Taycan finally arrived I immediately jumped back to Porsche. It's really a no-brainer in this anti-ice place.

 

[Dee]

I live in Norway and there really is no competition between ICE cars and EV cars. ICE cars are about twice the price here compared to the rest of the world due to taxes. EV's have no tax or VAT (yet) so they are much cheeper. What also points in the direction of EV's is that optional extras (from factory) are without VAT while 25% VAT is added on extras for ICE cars.

Example:
A nice spec'ed Taycan 4S (lets say $120.000) cost about 1/2 the price of a 911 4S with the same options ($220.000-$240.000) here in Norway.

No wonder we're going EV'in I've been driving Tesla Performance models since P85D came out in 2015 when I sold my Porsche 964 C4. Now that the Taycan finally arrived I immediately jumped back to Porsche. It's really a no-brainer in this anti-ice place.

Same here, no tax on EV.
No road tax either.
For now....

 

[HigherLevel]

I think the Norwegian market is very interesting because it is way ahead in terms of EV penetration with 43,1% share. Car buyers there don't choose between gas powered or EV, they choose between EVs.

The highlighted numbers are for 2020 total. elbilstatistikk.no

If you look at that what is your take on the expensive not performant Audi SUV e-tron outselling M3?

I'm not sure, but if I had to guess it's the same issue we've been facing in the USA: No stock available. They're sold out. It's the reason why the resale value on a Model 3 right now is the highest of any car available, simply because people want them and can't get them. You can walk on the lot and get an Etron any time now in the USA.

 

[feye]

I'm not sure, but if I had to guess it's the same issue we've been facing in the USA: No stock available. They're sold out. It's the reason why the resale value on a Model 3 right now is the highest of any car available, simply because people want them and can't get them. You can walk on the lot and get an Etron any time now in the USA.

Any real numbers to support your opinion?

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