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How to set to profile to only charge to 85%

AndiL

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Correct, the issue being an absolute smart charge cap of 85% not being foreseen. In either the myporsche app or the Tibber app.

I’ve mailed Tibber to see if this can be implemented if disclosed by API, if not I’ll contact Porsche Support. I expect to have my cake and eat it: Cost optimized charging, while still capped at 85%
That is something Tibber has to add. The Online API does provide the current SoC. Also they should provide documentation on how charging for their supported EVs should be setup to use their smart charging feature. Porsche can't help you with that.
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whitex

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One big problem is the wild differences in the available home charging setups being out there. What Porsche did is design the experience specifically/mostly on the basis of their new technology, being based on ISO15118-2 and EEBUS which includes their PMCC/PWCC and their HEMS. They started development on this in 2015 and where the first in the market to adopt these new open standards. Others are catching up, e.g. Mercedes also support ISO15118-2 and VW with their MEB platform (starting Software 3.2).

While their UX design is not optimal for sure, this is mostly the case for a first in market implementation. I do know that the engineers are aware of the complexity and problems and at some point there will be improvements made. I would be curious on how the new Macan SUV looks like, as I suspect that it would already include a new UX. Hopefully such a new UX will be made available to the Taycan as a software update as well.
Porsche is refusing to sell HEMS in the USA, or even support one you could get from Canada, so they obviously do not want people using HEMS in the USA. Since they do sell EV's in the USA, obviously that is the best user experience Porsche was capable of delivering - sad. The thing is, they could have just copied from other EV manufacturers which make it simple to use.

That said, I doubt most Level 2 chargers anywhere in the world are ISO 15118 capable, even in places where Porsche is selling HEMS. This means Porsche drivers will be charging at such locations, which means the UX should have accounted for that. I wonder what percentage of Porsches EVs on the road today charge exclusively at ISO 15118 capable EVSE's.

Last but not least, even if you assume ISO 15118 in every EVSE, the Porsche UX still seems poor and confusing. Doesn't Porsche have a UX team? Or is that team located in some remote part of the world which does not even have EV chargers, so the team is designing a completely abstract experience to them.
 

AndiL

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They do have a UX team, and that was the best they came up with at that time. Most EVs out there, didn't even have the possibilities to use timers (with or without a HEMS) for charging or climating.

And as they were the first to adopt ISO15118-2 on AC charging and most other vendors didn't catch up yet, it is no wonder that most charger you can purchase do not support it. But I can assure it, it will be becoming more popular over the next couple of years. With bi-directional charging ISO15118 is even mandatory.

That said, I know the engineers at Porsche are aware of the issue. Why this hasn't been improved in the past ... well ... ask the Porsche managers in charge :)
 

whitex

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They do have a UX team, and that was the best they came up with at that time. Most EVs out there, didn't even have the possibilities to use timers (with or without a HEMS) for charging or climating.
Hmm... I've been driving Teslas for almost a decade. They had scheduled charging ever since I remember, not sure when the scheduled departure became available as I never used it. I know Porsche tested the model S during Taycan development, so they obviously saw it can be made easy for the end user.

And as they were the first to adopt ISO15118-2 on AC charging and most other vendors didn't catch up yet, it is no wonder that most charger you can purchase do not support it. But I can assure it, it will be becoming more popular over the next couple of years. With bi-directional charging ISO15118 is even mandatory.
Taycan does not support bi-directional charging AFAIK, so it offers no incentive whatsoever to get a ISO15118 EVSE, especially if you already have an EVSE. Furthermore, most public chargers will never be bidirectional, as people plugging in usually do so to charge, rather than to sell electricity back to the grid. It will be a very long time, if ever, before ISO 15118 becomes omnipresent. Until such times, EV's should account for that and offer simple to use UI. Selling a car today optimized for usage 10, 20, or more years into the future is just silly. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say Porsche will not guarantee the Taycans made today will work with whatever ISO15118-x version of the standard becomes prevalent 10+ years down the road. Heck, the PMC+ which comes standard with the Taycan is not ISO15118 capable, so the UI is not even designed to work well with the standard hardware.
 

AndiL

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I did not say or mean that the Taycan supports bi-direction charging or that public chargers will. What I meant is that EVs that will support bi-directional charging (via CCS or Type 2) will have to implement ISO15118 as a basis.

But we are talking in circles. In hindsight everything can be made better or simpler. And everyone on the internet always knows what happend, why it happened and how it should be done instead. Isn't it ;)
 


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I think the app is pretty spot on. I’m just missing the absolute cap @85% for deferred/cost optimized charging.
So create one additional slider underneath the minimum charge
and call it maximum charge. Then I would be a 100% satisfied.
 

hifi239

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HEM - not limited to Porsche and so any can be used. This then becomes useful if you want to mix your charging with grid and solar power.

DC charging - nothing to 'fix' - you may not like the operation but it is how it is for good reason.

Charging planner does not control the start or end time of charging session on route - that's not what it is intended or designed to do. The intent is to minimise your charging time at each stopover based on available EVSEs (which must exist in the database and to pre-condition your battery on arrival at each stopover - meaning you may well pass other EVSEs you could stop at).

Glad that you decided to invest some time in reading the manual - logically, charging is placed in a section entitled 'Mobility & Minor Repairs' under subsection 'Charging' - several pages (4,933 words) worth.
Just for the record, here is a partial list of EV makers that offer a DC fast charging limit. This includes other VW-family makes besides Porsche, and it includes vehicles that have free EA charging in the US, like the Porsche, such as Lucid. I have driven all of these makes except for Hyundai. My wife wouldn't let me get a Hyundai.
- Tesla
- VW
- Hyundai
- Audi
- Lucid
- Ford
- Mercedes

Why do we have to be the ones to suffer without that feature??
 

W1NGE

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Just for the record, here is a partial list of EV makers that offer a DC fast charging limit. This includes other VW-family makes besides Porsche, and it includes vehicles that have free EA charging in the US, like the Porsche, such as Lucid. I have driven all of these makes except for Hyundai. My wife wouldn't let me get a Hyundai.
- Tesla
- VW
- Hyundai
- Audi
- Lucid
- Ford
- Mercedes

Why do we have to be the ones to suffer without that feature??
It is truly a first world problem for sure.

More and more providers in UK are imposing maximum charging times 30 mins and no return within 4 hours - at 50kW EVSEs or face a hefty overstay fee - all designed to reduce hogging and to curtail owners going AWOL for extended periods of time.
 


whitex

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Just for the record, here is a partial list of EV makers that offer a DC fast charging limit. This includes other VW-family makes besides Porsche, and it includes vehicles that have free EA charging in the US, like the Porsche, such as Lucid. I have driven all of these makes except for Hyundai. My wife wouldn't let me get a Hyundai.
- Tesla
- VW
- Hyundai
- Audi
- Lucid
- Ford
- Mercedes

Why do we have to be the ones to suffer without that feature??
Because Porsche screwed up and instead of actually designing an intended user experience, they handed the ISO 15118 spec to engineers and told them to implement it, so they did, lifting engineering interface from a spec and exposing as-is it to the driver. This results in a much less than optimal user experience, but more importantly this already bad experience only applies to a very small number of EVSE's to which Taycans connect to. For most Taycans, the experience is even worse as their EVSE's don't support ISA15118, not even the standard EVSE which comes with the Taycan (PMC+). For example, if you have a standard J1772 charger which supports dynamic load balancing between more than one EV, you cannot even use timers, or you risk the car not charging overnight - that is because the car checks for available charge rate, then calculates the time to start charging based on the timer's departure time and desired SoC, but if at that time the EVSE reports lower charge rate (perhaps because another EV was charging at the same time), Taycan just errors out and doesn't charge at all.
 

whitex

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It is truly a first world problem for sure.

More and more providers in UK are imposing maximum charging times 30 mins and no return within 4 hours - at 50kW EVSEs or face a hefty overstay fee - all designed to reduce hogging and to curtail owners going AWOL for extended periods of time.
The simplest solution would be to charge per minute per max charge rate of the car, then add a towaway for overstays more than some threshold (no different than if you left your gas car at the pump in a gas station). The economics would drive people to charge only up to some percentage, since the charge rate slows down at the higher SoC which would result in a much higher effective price per KWh. So let's take an example of a charger which charges $0.50 per KWh today. if you had a Taycan, you could plug into a 350KW station, get charged $2/minute, which works out to $0.50 per KWh at peak rate of 250KW, but that last 1 KWh, should you choose to charge to 100%, would cost you you $40. Most people will make sure they unplug when their rate tapers off. My example was using round numbers for simplicity, in real life you could tweak it a bit, but you get the idea.
 

WasserGKuehlt

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The simplest solution would be to charge per minute per max charge rate of the car, then add a towaway for overstays more than some threshold (no different than if you left your gas car at the pump in a gas station). The economics would drive people to charge only up to some percentage, since the charge rate slows down at the higher SoC which would result in a much higher effective price per KWh. So let's take an example of a charger which charges $0.50 per KWh today. if you had a Taycan, you could plug into a 350KW station, get charged $2/minute, which works out to $0.50 per KWh at peak rate of 250KW, but that last 1 KWh, should you choose to charge to 100%, would cost you you $40. Most people will make sure they unplug when their rate tapers off. My example was using round numbers for simplicity, in real life you could tweak it a bit, but you get the idea.
This is a non-problem, and a “solution” just encourages assholish behavior. The essence of the “feature” really is “my long-term SoH is more important than your time”.

FWIW, fast chargers are still a rare thing, and fast charging is still far slower than refueling with gas. I won’t begrudge someone using a charger with more power than their car can take, but there will be words if their charging session stopped short of full, and they’re taking their sweet fucking time during the “grace idling period” gawping at some random crap in a store while I’m waiting to resume my long-distance trip. I don’t see why my charging to 100% should be more expensive per time than being plugged in and idle.

And yes, as you can probably tell, this has actually happened to me - not only was the id.4 driver blocking a 350kW station with charging stopped at 80%, but they showed up exactly after the idle period expired - no doubt an alarm or alert, set to maximize the stay.

Move your cars, people, be considerate of others’ time.
 

whitex

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This is a non-problem, and a “solution” just encourages assholish behavior. The essence of the “feature” really is “my long-term SoH is more important than your time”.
Idle time should cost you as much as charging, per minute. I don't think what I just suggested encourages SoH behavior, $120 per hour for idling (you get charges as long as you are taking up the station) and a tow after say 45 minutes of idle, should quickly discourage assolish behavior, IMO.

Btw, would you classify using the battery friendly charging option of the Taycan as "assholish behavior"?

And yes, as you can probably tell, this has actually happened to me - not only was the id.4 driver blocking a 350kW station with charging stopped at 80%, but they showed up exactly after the idle period expired - no doubt an alarm or alert, set to maximize the stay.

Move your cars, people, be considerate of others’ time.
I can beat that, I showed up at an EA station once and the only two 350KW stations were blocked by one Mustang mach-E which parked wonky. The rest were 150KW stations (some limited to 100KW). Life is too short for me to get excited about this, I just plugged in to 150KW and went into Walmart to use the facilities and get some coffee. When the owner came back, I spoke with him, he was convinced his car can charge at 350KW. I suggested he google it, but wasn't going to argue. When he left, I re-plugged in for a few minutes before moving on, though mostly because the 150 was not actually delivering 150KW, the 350 did. He probably costed me 5, maybe 10 minutes of time. I used it to walk around the parking lot to stretch my legs a little. To be honest, I needed 80% or more on a few of legs of my trip, and while the Taycan will start at 250KW, it won't use more than 150KW after about 50% SoC. If I arrive at 10%-20%, 250KW was only used for about half the charge session (assuming charger could deliver it, not all 350's actually delivered).
 
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Scandinavian

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I don't know if it is a peculiarity of UK cars but a profile on its own will not work.

I'm on my 2nd Taycan now and profile only charging failed spectacularly on both - general or location based profiles (type of profile is irrelevant). The car would always continue to charge past the minimum set and so charging to 100% would be the consequence of that.
I have now had a chance to test this in the Taycan RWD loaner.

I set Profile to 75% in General and disabled ALL timers.
Car started charging as soon as I plugged in as expected and the loaner was equipped with the 22 kW option. Used a Tesla Wall connector set at 25 amp, 3 phase and got 16 kW. 16.9 kW drawn from supply. So about 5%loss which is ok.

Charging stopped at 85% and has been standing there now for 2 hours still plugged in.

If your cars have continued charging to 85% it would seem you there Is a difference in UK cars OR you have an issue with your car??
 

eddieterry

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Yes but it depends if you left the optimised button ticked as if you want to just charge straight away to 85 % and then stop (as most videos show for AC charging) you need to leave the optimised button ticked and it will charge to the 85% and stop without any problem. DC charging is totally different and just charges to 100 % if left to do so.
 

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I don't know if it is a peculiarity of UK cars but a profile on its own will not work.

I'm on my 2nd Taycan now and profile only charging failed spectacularly on both - general or location based profiles (type of profile is irrelevant). The car would always continue to charge past the minimum set and so charging to 100% would be the consequence of that.
I’ve now tested this pretty thoroughly by setting just one ‘General’ profile set to 85% Min and the car hit the required charge and stopped and did not start again even after being plugged in for several hours after reaching 85%. Maybe this is just a particularity with your cars?
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