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Toyota claim solid state breakthrough

ciaranob

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https://apple.news/AegiAqEoZS3-jHfFdfE5-vA


Toyota claims battery breakthrough in potential boost for electric cars

Japanese firm believes it could make a solid-state battery with a range of 745 miles that charges in 10 minutes


Toyota says it has made a technological breakthrough that will allow it to halve the weight, size and cost of batteries, in what could herald a major advance for electric vehicles.
The world’s second largest carmaker was already pursuing a plan to roll out cars with advanced solid-state batteries, which offer benefits compared with liquid-based batteries, by 2025.


On Tuesday, the Japanese company said it had simplified production of the material used to make them, hailing the discovery as a significant leap forward that could dramatically cut charging times and increase driving range.


“For both our liquid and our solid-state batteries, we are aiming to drastically change the situation where current batteries are too big, heavy and expensive,” said Keiji Kaita, president of the Japanese auto firm’s research and development centre for carbon neutrality. “In terms of potential, we will aim to halve all of these factors.”


David Bailey, a professor of business economics at the University of Birmingham, said that if Toyota’s claims were founded, it could be a landmark moment for the future of electric cars.


“Often there are breakthroughs at the prototype stage but then scaling it up is difficult,” he said. “If it is a genuine breakthrough it could be a gamechanger, very much the holy grail of battery vehicles.”


Kaita said the company had developed ways to make batteries more durable and believed it could now make a solid-state battery with a range of 1,200km (745 miles) that could charge in 10 minutes or less.


The company expects to be able to manufacture solid-state batteries for use in electric vehicles as soon as 2027, according to the Financial Times, which first reported on Toyota’s claimed breakthrough.


Solid-state batteries have been widely seen as a potential gamechanger for electric vehicles, promising to reduce charging times, increase capacity and reduce the fire risk associated with lithium-ion batteries, which use a liquid electrolyte.


However, solid-state batteries have typically been harder and costlier to make, limiting their commercial application.


Toyota said it believed it could simplify the production process, potentially making solid-state batteries easier to produce than lithium-ion ones.


The Japanese carmaker has been seen as something of a laggard compared with rivals in the electric vehicle market. In June last year it recalled 2,700 of its first electric vehicles because of concerns the wheels could fall off.


Last month, the Advertising Standards Authority banned adverts by Toyota and Hyundai for exaggerating the speed at which electric cars could be charged and misleading consumers about the availability of rapid charging points across the UK and Ireland.
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tutis

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Sounds like the new guy in charge at Toyota lit a fire under his engineers and demanded results - fast. Let’s hope this technology race sparks some further innovation. Perhaps this may finally assuage the “I need 500 miles of range - always and whenever” crowd but also potentially a battery weighing half as much could make EVs more affordable; lower COGS but also smaller cars, smaller brakes etc.
 
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ciaranob

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I'm always wary of these types of 'announcements' of course - especially when you read the final line in the article - some history there :)

But yes the sooner we crack that nut and can upscale the SS tech the sooner there will be a quantum change in attitude to EVs - if it happens by 2025 I'll be a bit peeved especially if there will be no options to retrofit a SS battery perhaps at half cost and double range back into my CT :)
 

reduxs

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"The world’s second largest carmaker was already pursuing a plan to roll out cars with advanced solid-state batteries, which offer benefits compared with liquid-based batteries, by 2025."
"The company expects to be able to manufacture solid-state batteries for use in electric vehicles as soon as 2027, according to the Financial Times, which first reported on Toyota’s claimed breakthrough."
So still 4+ years away, assuming no delays (which there almost certainly will be).
 

snstevens

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This isn't that far from reality in my perspective. Check out this article about how Sila is partnering with Mercedes Benz to use a silicon anode in a traditional Lithium Ion battery to pack 20-40% more energy into a battery cell, and reduce cost significantly.

This product exists today, but the first Mercedes to include the new battery technology is a 2025 G Class.
 


f1eng

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battery with a range of 1,200km (745 miles) that could charge in 10 minutes or less.
I got to this point and tried to imagine the diameter of the cable on the dispenser capable of the megawatt or so needed to do that…
 


daveo4EV

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I got to this point and tried to imagine the diameter of the cable on the dispenser capable of the megawatt or so needed to do that…
yes to this +100 - I shake my head at every article that claims "10 min charge" - given 90 - 150 kWh batteries the math is inescapable on the amount of KW's required to do that sort of capacity in "10 minutes"

150 kWh in 10 minutes - means 900 kW
90 kWh in 10 minutes - means 540 kW

so we have some work to do - and if you want that at a 16 stall "supercharger" - well that's quite the power feed

that's 900 * 16 14,400 kW to service 16 stalls and 10 min charge times for 150 kWh batteries.

phew
 

f1eng

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150 kWh in 10 minutes - means 900 kW
I was assuming the efficiency of the motors wouldn’t be massively better so a 750 mile battery would also be 200kWh or so!
 

daveo4EV

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I was assuming the efficiency of the motors wouldn’t be massively better so a 750 mile battery would also be 200kWh or so!
I'm hopeful for 4 or 5 mi/kwh (Lucid is in this zone today)

4 mi/kwh 750 miles = 187 kWh

but honestly with 10 min charging stops 450 miles range is sufficient (it's what i get in my SUV and 911) on a tank of gas...

so 450 miles range at 4.5 mi/kwh = 100 kWh battery capacity…

once we're down to 10 min charge times I think extreme range is less of an issue

450 miles @ 60 mph average speed is 7.5 hours of seat time between charging stops…ummmm not sure we need to do much better than that.

so a 1000 kW "charger" could equal 10 min charge times for 450-500 miles of range - but that would still require massive cables unless we're talking 1200 or 1600 volts…to reduce the current.

I could seen two 800V 'banks' in the vehicle - and split the incoming 1600V from the charger and charge the two separate battery banks in parallel @ 800V each - I'd love an EE to jump in here and explain to me in excruciating detail why I'm wrong and cluelss, but that could work if my basic EE skills are up to snuff…
 

DCYL725

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These claims are true in labs and a small volume. The issues are scalability, costs and most importantly safety.

being able to make a one-off with infinite resources is doable but not commercially feasible.

I don’t think this tech will hit roads for another 10 years with Japan being so far behind in mass battery production.

If CATL came out with this claim, that would be a different story.
 

W1NGE

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I'm always wary of these types of 'announcements' of course - especially when you read the final line in the article - some history there :)

But yes the sooner we crack that nut and can upscale the SS tech the sooner there will be a quantum change in attitude to EVs - if it happens by 2025 I'll be a bit peeved especially if there will be no options to retrofit a SS battery perhaps at half cost and double range back into my CT :)
I read a week or so ago that MG will be selling their cars with solid state in 2025 with a claimed 133 kWh battery.
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