Recall (9/1/23): Insufficient Sealant Causing High-Voltage Battery Leak on 2023 Taycans APB2 (4,777 Units Affected)

[FutureEV]

I put my VIN in to this address. My car is within the date range, but came up with no recalls

https://recall.porsche.com/prod/pag/vinrecalllookup_V3.nsf/VIN?ReadForm&c=usa

Aah so this is why you get a paperweight with your VIN on it, so you can easily check for recalls

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[whitex]

Cars are not produced sequentially- depending on body shape, trim, equipment level and even paint, two consecutive “shells” (or production slots, at the beginning of the process) will end up with different VINs.
The NHTSA report also seems to imply that a specific set of batteries exhibit the issue, which may mean that different batches from the same manufacturer, or even from different/other manufacturers were in production at the same time.

The good thing is that the recall is now officially started, and there is a well-defined process (and scrutiny) for how it should, and will unfold.

It is interesting that the recall has continuous VIN ranges for a fairly long production time window. It would make me wonder, how does the car produced in the middle of the recall time window escape being recalled with a VIN number outside the recall range. Were they producing cars with newer batteries in March already, and conveniently those cars had higher VIN numbers?

 

[Fish Fingers]

Good question to ask your UK Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA) https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-recalls-and-faults/report-a-serious-safety-defect

UK Govt Department.

I expect the guidance is to replace all the ones in the South in a timely fashion and just ignore the ones North of Birmingham.

After all us Northerners can always use the train instead....oh wait a minute. ?

 

[BJCanadaMax]

Link to Canadian recall page: https://wwwapps.tc.gc.ca/Saf-Sec-Sur/7/VRDB-BDRV/search-recherche/detail.aspx?lang=eng&rn=2023493
501 Taycans included.

thanks, that clears all 2024 model year ones. would be annoying with this recall

 

[whitex]

So I was thinking more about this sealant problem. Porsche estimates that 3% of the batteries with the initial Teroson sealant will fail the test, less than a year later. So the question is, what is the mode of failure here? Is this something which either fails within few months or never? Or is there another x% expected to leak during year-two after production. If my car passes the leak test today, does it mean it is sealed well, or did I just not drive through wet enough environment yet, or has it just not been long enough and it might fail at some later point? Given that the consequences can lead to a fire, this does seem serious.

Anyone know any more details?

 

[summerlion]

Is this something which either fails within few months or never? Or is there another x% expected to leak during year-two after production.

I had the same question. I think the best case for optimism comes from the verbiage in the mitigation section of the recall notice:

If testing indicates the potential for leakage, the battery will be replaced.

Use of the word "potential" would seem to indicate that Porsche believes that 97% of cars are ok even with the inferior sealant. I'm not the right kind of engineer to pass judgement on whether this is plausible, or if Porsche is just saying that so they don't have to spend a gazillion euros to replace every single battery.

 

[Tooney]

@whitex Now that dealers have been issued in-the-car HV leak testers, maybe HV battery leak testing will become a part of scheduled maintenance, if existing on-board diagnostics don't warn about leaks.

 

[whitex]

@whitex Now that dealers have been issued in-the-car HV leak testers, maybe HV battery leak testing will become a part of scheduled maintenance, if existing on-board diagnostics don't warn about leaks.

Not sure this would be great for customers. Maintenance would be required or else your Taycan may catch of fire burning down your house? Given that Porsche does not have set maintenance prices, I see an opportunity for dealers to extort money from customers. Annual service, only $5,000, or you risk your car and home going up in flames. Imagine your home builder coming back to you with "there is a potential defect with your house, and there maybe a gas leak forming somewhere, but for only $2,400 a year we will inspect it once a year to catch the leak, should it start, before it becomes dangerous".

Edit: Perhaps all affected cars should get free annual leak tests instead, whether or not you pay for other maintenance or not. Comparable loaner Taycan included if the dealer needs it for more than an hour to complete the test.

 

[Tooney]

@whitex I re-read the recall document. It looks like "reduced insulation resistance values", which give warning messages displayed in the vehicle, are a potential sign of leaks.

If true, dealer leak testing as a PM procedure would not be necessary.

It also appears that "reduced insulation resistance values" were detected in 2022 before Teroson sealant was added to batteries.

It seems that some of the red electrical warning messages on pre-2023 Taycans leading to HV battery replacements are caused by "reduced insulation resistance values" aka possible battery leaks, rather than failed cells or modules with voltage problems.

 

[Marmolata]

looks to me like Porsche is trying to throw Henkel under the bus, by specifically naming the sealant brand. also I am surprised in this day and age, this is even an issue. joining two pieces together to be water tight should not be that complicated in 2023. ??‍

 

[007]

I am surprised in this day and age, this is even an issue. joining two pieces together to be water tight should not be that complicated in 2023. ??‍

It becomes complicated when your colleagues in accounting give you $X budget for the glue but you need $2X for the good stuff. And your compensation/bonus is tied to staying under budget, not if it breaks down a few years down the road.

 

[Tooney]

@rs38 and @ciaranob: See post 39 above. Any measurements for insulation resistance reported by OBD tools you are using?

 

[ciaranob]

@rs38 and @ciaranob: See post 39 above. Any measurements for insulation resistance reported by OBD tools you are using?

Looking through all the sensors I couldn't see anything that might measure/record anything like this - some of the terminology is a bit cryptic though!

 

[rs38]

VCDS offers some:

isolation_resistance_battery_minus-Status	valid
isolation_resistance_battery_minus-insulation_resistance	2050	kOhm
isolation_resistance_battery_plus-Status	valid
isolation_resistance_battery_plus-insulation_resistance	10000	kOhm
isolation_resistance_system_minus-Status	valid
isolation_resistance_system_minus-insulation_resistance	2540	kOhm
isolation_resistance_system_plus-Status	valid
isolation_resistance_system_plus-insulation_resistance	2420	kOhm

 

[whitex]

VCDS offers some:

isolation_resistance_battery_minus-Status	valid
isolation_resistance_battery_minus-insulation_resistance	2050	kOhm
isolation_resistance_battery_plus-Status	valid
isolation_resistance_battery_plus-insulation_resistance	10000	kOhm
isolation_resistance_system_minus-Status	valid
isolation_resistance_system_minus-insulation_resistance	2540	kOhm
isolation_resistance_system_plus-Status	valid
isolation_resistance_system_plus-insulation_resistance	2420	kOhm

Out of curiosity, does VCDS offer ability to program things, or just read out?

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