Recall: Power Outlet May Cause Charging Cable to Overheat (20-24) APB6 - December 13, 2023

[Tooney]

agreed- what is unclear from the recall is has Porsche changed the wire gauge in the replacement power supply cables - or have they just added a thermal sensor and kept the #10 AWG wire…

I'm hoping for sensor + 8 (or 6) AWG wire
but I'm pretty sure it will be just a "sensor" and they are going to cheap out on the wire…

"In June 2023, Porsche became aware of further instances of overheating in Taycan charging cables, even with the power reduction. Porsche investigated this issue and determined that, even though the NEMA plug in the charging cable meets UL household use criteria, if it is used with a lower quality electrical receptacle, it can become permanently damaged, such that even when used with a recommended outlet, there could be elevated electrical resistance. More specifically, the connector crimps in the cable could be damaged due to overheating, leading to further increased electrical resistance and elevated temperatures. Porsche further determined that a new plug with an incorporated temperature sensor would eliminate this issue.​

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In late 2023, upon further review of the issue and the latest field data, Porsche identified 110 incidents of mobile charger malfunctions attributable to the subject issue. On December 6, Porsche determined that it would supersede the WMP2 Service Campaign and conduct a safety recall to replace the subject mobile chargers.​

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Identify How/When Recall Condition was Corrected in Production :​

The charging plug with sensors was incorporated into production in Calendar Week 48 of 2023."​

I think Porsche is very clear: it is providing a new plug with a sensor, which "would eliminate this issue".

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[Vim Schrotnock]

It sounds like their solution will be to shut down the power if the charging plug gets too hot as opposed to fixing the problem. Otherwise, why the need for a temperature sensor? Hard to believe, but evidently sticking a sensor on the plug and modifying the software is a 'better' solution than replacing the plug and wire with properly specified components.

 

[slothinker]

I thought charging w/ 120V was specifically NOT recommended except in no-alternative situations. In my case there is no overheating at 200v and I’m planning on continuing on with my setup until a replacement arrives.

 

[whitex]

Sold my Plaid. Have a 220/240 charger outlet I was using for Tesla. So I can’t use the Porsche charging unit/ cable once my turbo arrives?.
Thx in advance

Use Porsche unit do you have before your turbo arrives and what do you want to use it for?

 

[whitex]

Porsche uses a wire that is technically appropriate, but has zero margin for safety. It also assumes that the socket it's plugged into and the box the socket is in are rated for 90 degrees C. That's typical in a commercial installation, but not in a residential installation in the US so it was a bad assumption.

Actually, I would argue that it borders on unsafe as it is marketed for residential outlets, which are known to have much lower specs. They cannot get away with an industrial outlet recommendation since they are selling it as a mobile adapter. This latest move by Porsche I suspect is a result of the legal team finally explaining the magnitude of liability, or perhaps an actual lawsuit and/or settlement outcome. Porsche is not doing this to improve on their EVSE product (if they did, they'd swap in larger wiring while they are at it), they are doing it purely as a legal liability shield. This explains why recently delivered cars didn't come with the old cable at all, rather Porsche is giving the new owners $750 for a substitute EVSE and another $500 for their troubles while waiting for the new cable. $1,250 is cheaper than having to pay for damages, should any occur, since the plaintiff would have evidence (Porsche recall) that Porsche knew about it and still delivered them a dangerous product.

I wonder why they didn't just buy the owners a Tesla Mobile Connector with a J1772 adapter - would have been much cheaper, and the owners would have a lightweight, proven EVSE to use while waiting for Porsche's new cable, and a Tesla-J1772 adapter for travels.

 

[whitex]

It sounds like their solution will be to shut down the power if the charging plug gets too hot as opposed to fixing the problem. Otherwise, why the need for a temperature sensor? Hard to believe, but evidently sticking a sensor on the plug and modifying the software is a 'better' solution than replacing the plug and wire with properly specified components.

You actually want both, bigger wiring and temperature sensor. The temperature sensor will protect the outlet in case of bad wiring too, whether lose connections, or damaged/faulty/too small wiring. Bigger wires will prevent the temperature sensor from unnecessarily tripping, protecting the end user from Porsches own inadequately sized wiring.

Side note, Tesla throttles first based on temperature sensor, doesn't immediately shut off all power until a higher temperature threshold. Perhaps Porsche won't do it since due to their small size wiring that would result in all Porsche EVSE's turning into 32A or 20A versions during the summer months, so it's better to only have the anti-meltdown shutoff?

 

[daveo4EV]

having worked in a. corporation for 30+ years I can see how this is working it's way through the system…everyone is focusing on "the problem" - "we're melting crappy North American $12 NEMA sockets" - we have to do something! Well we need to avoid melting the sockets - let's put in a sensor and when it gets too hot we'll stop the charging - bingo that avoids the problem…

no one is stepping back to look at the big picture and asking the right question: "do we need to run that hot?"

their component is "above" reproach - because honestly and factually the problem is _NOT_ their component - their component is safe/effective/appropriate and does not fail …

but I doubt anyone is asking the "right question" - which is "Why does our component run so hot?" And "does it have to run that hot?"

sometimes it is hard to see the forest for the Trees - I'm willing to bet no one has ever asked the VW engineer(s) in charge of this (or the sub-contractor) can we make it run cooler?

the 10 AWG wire is not "wrong" - and it's perfect safe/effective as long as Porsche has the appropriate wire insulation - which it does…no one is asking them "could we change it to run cooler?"

it's probably assumed it is what it is - and there is nothing to be done…

at least that's my bet.

 

[Tooney]

Agree with @whitex, a primary purpose of the change is to shield Porsche from liability. Adding switch to "protect" Porsche device from being damaged by "lower quality receptacle" limits liability. Beefing up the cable - for whatever purpose - could be construed to mean that the product was faulty.
If sensor actually stops charging if it gets hot, then "this is overheating" problem will be replaced by the "charging stopped early" problem.

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

Like @daveo4EV (hi!), I see (and have) firsthand insight into how a corporation handles incidents of this nature, specifically those with safety (and therefore legal) implications.

There is always a deep analysis, and all possible solutions are considered. There is always a worst case simulation - for each of the viable paths. There is an ungodly amount of hours spent discussing, writing, discussing the writing and so on - at various levels of management, and across organizations - including legal. (Those are “fun” ?: very helpful and much needed, but … painful.)

What I am alluding to is that, for a large corporation, it is hardly ever a simple “this costs more than that” decision, nor “can’t admit failure”. (Admission is made at the point of issuing the recall. From then on, it doesn’t matter what the fix will be, since an “unpatched” case can make the same claim of “incompetence” against the company.)

This recall, like the previous ones, ticks a lot of boxes:
- admits some degree of being at fault (this part is usually minimized)
- deflects some of the responsibility to external/user’s circumstances (“you’re holding it wrong”)(this part is usually played up)
- characterizes the fault as one of implementation rather than design
- (consequently) the solution is an “enhancement”

The numbers (affected customers or known failed cases) are provided so they can reinforce the conclusions.

The thing is, though, that you always try and do right by the customer. Nobody wants a repeat/an incomplete fix. (And you always know more about the system than the customer does.) This makes me believe that Porsche considers the sensor-based solution to be the safer fix for all scenarios, given everything else. (Consider that a cable fix would/could expose a similar defect downstream. The PMC+ and above do have an internal temp sensor, probably for a reason. As far as i can tell, my Autel EVSE doesn’t.)

(just my 2c)

 

[whitex]

This makes me believe that Porsche considers the sensor-based solution to be the safer fix for all scenarios, given everything else. (Consider that a cable fix would/could expose a similar defect downstream. The PMC+ and above do have an internal temp sensor, probably for a reason. As far as i can tell, my Autel EVSE doesn’t.)

Are you suggesting that a cable with a temperature sensor and old, undersized wires was deemed safer than a cable with temperature sensor and upsized wires? That would mean there is another weakness in the system they are hiding by allowing the undersized wires with temperature sensor to serve as a safety e-fuse. In other words that would mean that the PMC+/PMCC is rated for too high current which pushes it into unsafe territory. It would be like claiming a car has a max speed of X but putting a rev limiter on the engine which kicks in whenever the ambient temperature is above 70F.

 

[Vim Schrotnock]

I have had the Porsche system installed and triple checked with all the correct components - outlet and wiring, and I still get a system error when the ambient temperature exceeds around 80 deg F. I throttle back to 36A current, and it works. Again, the highest quality outlet and wiring - still having overheating problems. I suspect this is because of poor design, and if Porsche were completely in the clear here, there wouldn't be a modification required.

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

Are you suggesting that a cable with a temperature sensor and old, undersized wires was deemed safer than a cable with temperature sensor and upsized wires? That would mean there is another weakness in the system they are hiding by allowing the undersized wires with temperature sensor to serve as a safety e-fuse. In other words that would mean that the PMC+/PMCC is rated for too high current which pushes it into unsafe territory. It would be like claiming a car has a max speed of X but putting a rev limiter on the engine which kicks in whenever the ambient temperature is above 70F.

I am merely alluding to this being a possibility. (And that’s exactly right, the plug sensor would be an upstream safety fuse.)
Regarding the engine analogy - that’s a bit extreme/forced, but yes, the principle is the same - limit the functionality if it can’t be trusted above a certain threshold, on the assumption that it will be a rare case.

 

[whitex]

I have had the Porsche system installed and triple checked with all the correct components - outlet and wiring, and I still get a system error when the ambient temperature exceeds around 80 deg F. I throttle back to 36A current, and it works. Again, the highest quality outlet and wiring - still having overheating problems. I suspect this is because of poor design, and if Porsche were completely in the clear here, there wouldn't be a modification required.

Porsche really should have just released an all new EVSE and offer free replacements. Audi is now giving away EA EVSE's with their EV's, I presume that's instead of the PMC+ they used to ship (which is now under recall).
https://electrek.co/2023/12/21/audi-offering-free-home-charger-buying-leasing-evs/
(give yourself a minute to stop laughing after looking at the picture at the beginning of the article - quality of "journalism" nowadays).

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

Porsche really should have just released an all new EVSE and offer free replacements. Audi is now giving away EA EVSE's with their EV's, I presume that's instead of the PMC+.
https://electrek.co/2023/12/21/audi-offering-free-home-charger-buying-leasing-evs/
(give yourself a minute to stop laughing after looking at the picture at the beginning of the article - quality of "journalism" nowadays).

Dammit, if I had gotten an Audi etron GT instead of the Taycan, I could have the rarer car and a $500 gift card to apply to the purchase of one Porsche-branded jacket. ?

 

[whitex]

Dammit, if I had gotten an Audi etron GT instead of the Taycan, I could have the rarer car and a $500 gift card to apply to the purchase of one Porsche-branded jacket. ?

You could have also utilized $30K or more in incentives never offered for Taycans. To be fair though, if you get a newly produced Taycan delivered today, you get PMC+ with missing 240V cable, $750 EVSE (probably EA), eventually a new 240V cable for PMc+, and a $500 gift card for your troubles.

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