VW Group (Porsche, Audi, Scout) Commits to NACS

[Zcd1]

This. I suspect when the future MBAs do discuss this they will talk about the absolute failure of EA and other CCS1 vendors to scale out quickly enough and Tesla's intransigence demanding large amounts of either cash or concessions from other manufacturers.

I'm pretty sure that the reason Tesla opened up their hardware to actual standardization when they did was because internally they knew they were about to lose the VHS/Betamax war and that their plug-end was about to become a footnote.

I'm still sitting here wondering why we couldn't have simply gone with Type-2/CCS2? It solves all of the same problems J3400 does but has the added benefit of creating a western world standard.

Why do you think Tesla was being intransigent? Was that reported somewhere?

Back in 2014, Telsa offered their patented EV technologies for free to anyone who wanted to use them to further the cause of EV development:

https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you

The legacy mfrs. basically said "no way" (because arrogance), and so here we are...

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[DRR]

I seriously hope Tesla (Elon) does not compromise, provide a solution that works, then continues with the approach "my way or the highway". CC1 and EA is "the great compromise", a result of "let's drive consensus" strategies. I know the current auto manufacturers will insist on integration with their own apps, but sincerely hope that Tesla will provide a way to just use the Tesla app instead, for whenever the Ford, GM, Audi, Porsche, or whoever else's app fails. Their agreement with Tesla should also include telling their users to install the Tesla app in any charging error messages that have to do with charging at a supercharger.

The fact that Tesla has already opened their chargers with magic dock to CCS vehicles using the Tesla app would seem to indicate they would extend that convenience next year with an approved adapter that we all carry in our car. For Porsche to say 2025 for adapter access in their press release seems to indicate they need time to integrate the approval into the Porsche app. If that is the case then we may have a much longer wait given Porsches poor track record with the app.

 

[DougFrisk]

Why do you think Tesla was being intransigent? Was that reported somewhere?

Back in 2014, Telsa offered their patented EV technologies for free to anyone who wanted to use them to further the cause of EV development:

https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you

The legacy mfrs. basically said "no way" (because arrogance), and so here we are...

Tesla offered to share their patents "for free" on the condition that anyone who used them shared their entire portfolio of patents with Tesla. It was a marketing stunt nothing more. The value of the few Tesla patents were pennies compared to decades of patents held by other automakers.

 

[DRR]

I did not realize that. My understanding was that Tesla benefits from the arrangement because Tesla is free to use any improvements made to its technology by another party electing to use Tesla patents.

 

[Zcd1]

Tesla offered to share their patents "for free" on the condition that anyone who used them shared their entire portfolio of patents with Tesla. It was a marketing stunt nothing more. The value of the few Tesla patents were pennies compared to decades of patents held by other automakers.

There were limitations, of course, because why wouldn't there be?

There were also opportunities:

https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=ca6c332f-2cc5-401b-b80d-36473d0754c7

What about the intransigence you mentioned?

 

[Jonathan S.]

The fact that Tesla has already opened their chargers with magic dock to CCS vehicles using the Tesla app would seem to indicate they would extend that convenience next year with an approved adapter that we all carry in our car. For Porsche to say 2025 for adapter access in their press release seems to indicate they need time to integrate the approval into the Porsche app. If that is the case then we may have a much longer wait given Porsches poor track record with the app.

The 2025 timeframe is the same for all latecomers -- BMW and Kiundesis too.
Authorization will be via the Tesla app (just like with Magic Docks), not the Porsche app (just like the Porsche app in the U.S. is not used for charging authorization for any network other than VAG's 91%-owned EA).

 

[DRR]

OK. So Porsche dragging their feet waiting to join NACS means existing Taycan owners get to enjoy the benefits of charging at EA for another year. Keep the EA number on speed dial.

 

[DougFrisk]

There were limitations, of course, because why wouldn't there be?

Because prima facie "for free" implies no strings or limitations.

If that's not the case, then Porsche gave me an EVSE for free.

 

[Zcd1]

Because prima facie "for free" implies no strings or limitations.

Semantics.

Fine - “open access”.

Still waiting for evidence of “intransigence”…

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

The 2025 timeframe is the same for all latecomers -- BMW and Kiundesis too.
Authorization will be via the Tesla app (just like with Magic Docks), not the Porsche app (just like the Porsche app in the U.S. is not used for charging authorization for any network other than VAG's 91%-owned EA).

The authorization has nothing to do with whom owns how much of EA. Porsche could reach an agreement Tesla and offer plug-n-charge via the Porsche app. Won’t happen, but I absolutely don’t want a Tesla account. (Or an EVGo, or ChargePoint - same thing.)

 

[whitex]

The fact that Tesla has already opened their chargers with magic dock to CCS vehicles using the Tesla app would seem to indicate they would extend that convenience next year with an approved adapter that we all carry in our car. For Porsche to say 2025 for adapter access in their press release seems to indicate they need time to integrate the approval into the Porsche app. If that is the case then we may have a much longer wait given Porsches poor track record with the app.

If Tesla app is allowed we could just start using it, let Porsche take its time to integrate. If it works better, people will switch. Unless Porsche is afraid of a little competition.

 

[snstevens]

The authorization has nothing to do with whom owns how much of EA. Porsche could reach an agreement Tesla and offer plug-n-charge via the Porsche app. Won’t happen, but I absolutely don’t want a Tesla account. (Or an EVGo, or ChargePoint - same thing.)

What's the concern about having a Tesla account and app on your phone?

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

What's the concern about having a Tesla account and app on your phone?

Yet one more account, for only infrequent usage: password management, them having my personal info, the unavoidable ensuing spam etc.

 

[snstevens]

Yet one more account, for only infrequent usage: password management, them having my personal info, the unavoidable ensuing spam etc.

For the record, have had an account for over a year (I'm an optimist hoping for SuC access sooner rather than later) and I've never received any email from Tesla. So far so good of course ?

 

[Jonathan S.]

I have 15 different charging apps on my phone. Almost all of which I have never used. And none of which have ever caused me any problems.

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