"Pre-series Taycan" prototype (presumably Turbo GT model-to-come) beats Turbo S around Nurburgring by 26 seconds (and Model S Plaid by 18 sec)!

[MissionE]

[QUOTE/]
I'd further imagine said 'manual control' would be paddles,
[/QUOTE]

Enter Ferrari, who is developing actually faux transmission shifting via paddles.

And I never cared for the circular sport rings. They themselves should be a thumb or index finger actuated button so you don’t have to take your hand off the steering wheel.

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[MissionE]

Got it and thanks for the clarification.
PS, I am 42% less offended by the standard front fascia.

I really like it. Of course, this is a long lens shot and the actual presence of the car should be more in proportion and elegant. I’m set to interview Michael Mauer later this year so should be interesting to discuss his design direction.

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

Why does it need to be a button or paddle? Why not a drive mode setting like in an Audo (put it in "D" and it has no boost, put it in "S" and it adds time limiter overboost at the top range of the accelerator, if you use it longer it drops back for some time and then it's available again).

Because that would imply an "unlimited" supply of "boost" - as long as you're in S/SportPlus/etc. the expectation is that you will have the promised additional HP. Furthermore, I'm somehow failing to make the point that it really is a situation where a switch (in the on/off sense with a single actuation) is not the right control; you really want the driver to keep pressing that button, as a way to indicate the (very) time-limited nature of the feature.

Or Tesla Plaid or Lucid Saphire, boost always available for limited duration when the accelerator hit the floor.

I don't wish to offend, but that is crap UX, and arguably, lazy engineering. I provides the user with an inconsistent experience (because nobody RTFM), and it makes the feature being used more. It's the same reason LCs take such an elaborate protocol to enable on some cars.

The generous point of view is that both Tesla and Lucid have made this a conscious decision; they considered offering boost behind an 'explicit, additional user action' but decided their audience would be best served with a single gesture/a single pedal. (And you'll have noticed how many ex-Tesla drivers around here want "one pedal driving".)

Taycan limits your power all the time via stability control (go try it, floor it turning right at the lights in our recent PNW damp weather, or next weekend on snow - your throttle response will be very much dampened by stability control unless you turn it off of course), so why not do the exact same thing when your overboost availability has expired, until it's available again. Only start the countdown of overboost when delivering over 100% power.

Ah, but that's not quite the same, right? If you had all the traction necessary, there would be no limitation. I tend to view these 'extra boost' features (whether on EVs or ICEs) the same as dipping into the reserve: if they wanted to make it standard behavior/capability, they'd have done so. (There's a reason LCs are counted - it's also a form of delivering >100% power.)

So if you activate the boost manually and keep your throttle on the floor for more than 10 seconds what happens instead, so it's not "downright dangerous"?

In that situation, you explicitly activated (having RTFM) a non-standard behavior, understanding its time limitation. You would not (or should not) be surprised observing a slowdown. (And the speculation earlier was that there is an accompanying countdown timer.) Alternatively, if this behavior (and the ensuing limitation) were to be all silent/invisible, my first overtake would be a breeze, and the subsequent one would end in a head-on collision. It's definitely my fault for not RTFMing, as well as for taking the risk - but the car behave differently.

(As an aside, speaking of the traction control on the Taycan - curiously, it does not flash a warning when it's engaged. It happened to me a few times, especially on on-ramps, and I thought the car was broken. Very unsettling. I suspect it would be such a frequent occurrence, that they decided not alerting but still intervening (to keep the driver safe) is preferrable to a very noisy alert.)

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

And I never cared for the circular sport rings. They themselves should be a thumb or index finger actuated button so you don’t have to take your hand off the steering wheel.

Each control type is suitable for specific purposes. A dial with clear detents is the optimal form of control for multiple, discrete choices inflicting minimal distraction on the drive (say, if the race engineer says "multi 21"...)(okay, that wasn't really a setting, thought I'd make an obscure F1 reference).

The sport dial on Ferrari or Porsche road cars is obviously a gimmick; it's definitely more useful than a soft/touch button, but it doesn't retain state, and so it's not a real selector. Not only that, but it doesn't provide quick access to some fine-grained setting - it's a "mood" selector, used maybe twice per drive. The dials on the GT3RS, on the other hand, do look very purposeful/designed for real track use.

 

[RAHRCR]

I really like it. Of course, this is a long lens shot and the actual presence of the car should be more in proportion and elegant. I’m set to interview Michael Mauer later this year so should be interesting to discuss his design direction.

Would be interested to understand his view on what appears to be a conflict between the engineers and designers. They are typically able to resolve this in a way that is both functionally excellent and aesthetically pleasing. In this case, it seems like the engineers won. Love to get his take on this.

 

[MissionE]

Would be interested to understand his view on what appears to be a conflict between the engineers and designers. They are typically able to resolve this in a way that is both functionally excellent and aesthetically pleasing. In this case, it seems like the engineers won. Love to get his take on this.

A good example is the new headlamp design, which they undoubtedly had to make larger and more flush with the surrounding body work to accommodate the more sophisticated headlamp system. As a result it’s not as sculpted as the existing version. Again, I will reserve judgment until seeing it in the flesh.

 

[Vim Schrotnock]

Let’s say boost mode gives you an extra 250 hp so you go from 750 to 1000 hp. The problem with using the throttle to activate this feature is how do you modulate? If you have a switch on the throttle that suddenly increases the horsepower of the car at a certain throttle position it would be very bad for driving. Much easier to have a button you push on the wheel and you maintain the linearity of your throttle, just at a higher power level.

 

[whitex]

Because that would imply an "unlimited" supply of "boost" - as long as you're in S/SportPlus/etc. the expectation is that you will have the promised additional HP.

Why? The power is already limited by traction control or by overheating too. Technically we are all driving in the on-demand 5 minute overboost state since when pushed hard on a track, Taycan will start limiting after as little as 5 minutes. I don't think you would want the standard drive only offer you power available when in limp mode due to overheating, and a button for normal power, and another for overboost. Overboost is actually overheating, just a lot quicker and to what you refer to as normal power levels and not down to limp mode.

I don't wish to offend, but that is crap UX, and arguably, lazy engineering. I provides the user with an inconsistent experience (because nobody RTFM), and it makes the feature being used more.

First, no danger of offending me, I don't get offended as a rule in life. Second, I don't see it as lazy at all, it's very intuitive. My wife's Audi has it. The power meter extends with clearly marked overboost when I select the Sport drive mode, and when the accelerator is pressed enough to get into the overboost range, there is a count down IIRC telling me how long before it's gone. I don't recall 100% (I don't drive that car often) but once used up, I think there is timer showing when it's coming back too. To me this is simple to use and intuitive, I actually haven't read the manual for that, just tried it once. It give the car full power when I want it for passing or an emergency manouver, without having to think which button I need to press to get it.

Ah, but that's not quite the same, right? If you had all the traction necessary, there would be no limitation.

The Taycan NEVER has all the traction necessary for all manouvers. What kind of track and tires would I need to be able to floor my Taycan from stand-still with traction control completely off and my wheels will not spin. I'm thinking some spongy drag racing tires not suitable for any cornering and specially prepped drag strip. Now show me a a track where you can unleash 1234hp of Lucid without traction control with no slip? My point it, traction control will always limit your power when enabled, even when racing around the track. Sure, some people prefer to turn it off and limit it with their foot, but not most people during street driving (where Taycans spend most of their active lives). Furthermore, battery SoC, battery temperature, motors temperatures, also limit your power and you cannot disable that limiting. So as it today, your throttle is never guaranteed to give you the same power when it's all the way down.

In that situation, you explicitly activated (having RTFM) a non-standard behavior, understanding its time limitation. You would not (or should not) be surprised observing a slowdown. (And the speculation earlier was that there is an accompanying countdown timer.) Alternatively, if this behavior (and the ensuing limitation) were to be all silent/invisible, my first overtake would be a breeze, and the subsequent one would end in a head-on collision. It's definitely my fault for not RTFMing, as well as for taking the risk - but the car behave differently.

A large countdown on the dash could easily remind you the power is going to be limited. Also, as it today, just a warning, your n-th overtake up a mountain can also limit your power, especially in hot weather, due to overheating of battery or motors. In cold weather the traction control is also likely to limit your power. I managed to kick my tail out a tad and hit traction control limit at ~70mph when I stomped on the accelerator attempting to pass in snow storm during my fly-and-drive.

So please be advised, your power may be limited during overtakes, whether due to overheating of the drive train, hitting a patch of snow, or sand, or water or a pot-hole. We'd miss you on this forum if that didn't end well.

(As an aside, speaking of the traction control on the Taycan - curiously, it does not flash a warning when it's engaged. It happened to me a few times, especially on on-ramps, and I thought the car was broken. Very unsettling. I suspect it would be such a frequent occurrence, that they decided not alerting but still intervening (to keep the driver safe) is preferrable to a very noisy alert.)

You can always disable traction control if you prefer to always be in control. There are 2 steps down, one will let you kick your tail out a little bit but will still prevent you from doing more than few degrees if possible, the other one (full off) will let you do a full 180 (or even 360) on the uphill Leary Way 520 onramp in Redmond when it's wet.

 

[whitex]

Please let me know if incorrect, but I thought Porsche's design philosophy (maybe not for the SUVs) is that all their vehicles are designed for track performance even though they know the great majority or owners will never use them that way.

My understanding was that the motto was "not that you would, but you could" and for that reason any boost would be manually controllable since that is the best setting for track use.

For an experienced track driver traction control is not needed either, yet it's offered for Porsches. So sure, offer track mode with no traction control and manual overboost and perhaps even manual ABS too (after all, maybe sometimes you want to lockup your wheels temporarily), but for the regular driving, make it intuitive to drive on regular roads.

 

[whitex]

Let’s say boost mode gives you an extra 250 hp so you go from 750 to 1000 hp. The problem with using the throttle to activate this feature is how do you modulate? If you have a switch on the throttle that suddenly increases the horsepower of the car at a certain throttle position it would be very bad for driving. Much easier to have a button you push on the wheel and you maintain the linearity of your throttle, just at a higher power level.

Why a button, always have it enabled, just limit the power when used up and recovering. Power gets limited by traction control and thermals already, this is just another level of thermals.

 

[Caraholic]

That strategy would be useless for track but fine, perhaps, on a road.
Far too vague to be properly targeted at the maximum performance.

I


To clarify, the facia on the car in the above article is the new sports fascia. Albeit a bit more aggressive considering the performance of this car.

The new standard facia is below

not a fan of that one at all but do like the sport bumper.

 

[Vim Schrotnock]

For an experienced track driver traction control is not needed either, yet it's offered for Porsches. So sure, offer track mode with no traction control and manual overboost and perhaps even manual ABS too (after all, maybe sometimes you want to lockup your wheels temporarily), but for the regular driving, make it intuitive to drive on regular roads.

Actually, I wouldn’t assume an experienced track driver doesn’t want traction control or a variety of other ‘Nannie’s’ in all conditions. I drove with a Porsche factory racer in my car, and he turned the PSM on when it started raining. Even the best drivers can’t brake a single wheel.

 

[whitex]

Actually, I wouldn’t assume an experienced track driver doesn’t want traction control or a variety of other ‘Nannie’s’ in all conditions. I drove with a Porsche factory racer in my car, and he turned the PSM on when it started raining. Even the best drivers can’t brake a single wheel.

Wait, someone is about to suggest quad paddles on the steering wheel to manually control breaking on each wheel. Or maybe 4 brake pedals, or two pedals which can be pressed independently at tow or heel.

 

[ShiftyWolf]

Suggested replacement for the standard Taycan steering wheel

 

[Fantasmos]

not a fan of that one at all but do like the sport bumper.

In the current Taycan no one is buying the sport pack since the “normal” one is so beautiful. I guess they decided to uglify it to push people to add another option. That one looks so meh…

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