Vehicle limiting charging speed

[DM28]

My SA (who I liked and was otherwise very good) said you didn’t really need it. I forget why, but basically put it down to a petrol car guy not knowing much about EV. I did get the 22kw AV unit though. I’ve had that replaced more times than I’ve used it.

I don’t do a vast amount of charging away from home. But as I understand it, nearly all of the new fast dc units going in are 800v.
The slight pain is if there are a choice of 2 or 3 150kw chargers near by, you can’t tell which is an 800v one until you try it and see your charge speed.
Big problem is slow access to Tesla network as it opens up I guess.

All really useful chat to me so thanks, i was at the point of cancelling the order, but it seems not all is lost, and with the 800v network improving i might not miss out on the upgrade?, what's your thoughts Bob

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[BigBob]

All really useful chat to me so thanks, i was at the point of cancelling the order, but it seems not all is lost, and with the 800v network improving i might not miss out on the upgrade?, what's your thoughts Bob

It hasn’t really been a problem for me, but I’d still sooner I had it! Sure it will be fine, focus on the depreciation rather than the charging speeds!!

 

[f1eng]

All really useful chat to me so thanks, i was at the point of cancelling the order, but it seems not all is lost, and with the 800v network improving i might not miss out on the upgrade?, what's your thoughts Bob

I was told 2 years ago that all non-Tesla chargers are 800V and you only needed 150kW 400V option for charging at Tesla chargers is they opened up their network, which they now have in part.
A lot of people thought it was a waste of money, I have the option but have never needed to use it.

 

[DM28]

I was told 2 years ago that all non-Tesla chargers are 800V and you only needed 150kW 400V option for charging at Tesla chargers is they opened up their network, which they now have in part.
A lot of people thought it was a waste of money, I have the option but have never needed to use it.

do you do a lot of miles though, i tend to need to charge on motorways etc, not sure what the infrastructures like for 800V

 

[f1eng]

do you do a lot of miles though, i tend to need to charge on motorways etc, not sure what the infrastructures like for 800V

As far as I know all the super fast chargers are 800V except earlier Tesla ones, so no problem with the car speed itself, the limits will maybe be the chargers if all occupied and battery temp and SoC.

 

[BigBob]

Some of the 150 kw ones that are around are also 400v. I’ve maxed out at 40 odd on them in the past.

 

[W1NGE]

yes I'm totally with you, I overlooked it which sounds stupid given what's at stake, I guess I didn't expect Porsche to skimp on something as important as this
the only way for me to add it now is to have the lease re-quoted which comes to over £100 / month.

do you find there is a decent network of 800Kw stations?

I'm not up on these as i always tend to use Tesla, having a model 3 previously

Tesla super charger network is predominately 400v in UK

don’t sweat this nor should you have to consider voltage at all. - difficult to determine at a given EVSE.

Target EVSEs > 150 kW and all will almost certainly be 800v meaning you can take full advantage.

 

[W1NGE]

My SA (who I liked and was otherwise very good) said you didn’t really need it. I forget why, but basically put it down to a petrol car guy not knowing much about EV. I did get the 22kw AV unit though. I’ve had that replaced more times than I’ve used it.

I don’t do a vast amount of charging away from home. But as I understand it, nearly all of the new fast dc units going in are 800v.
The slight pain is if there are a choice of 2 or 3 150kw chargers near by, you can’t tell which is an 800v one until you try it and see your charge speed.
Big problem is slow access to Tesla network as it opens up I guess.

Asset plate located on EVSE will quote the voltage. Likely need to get on your hands and knees to find it!

Note the required 800v component is a DC to DC voltage booster and not a charger and so the analogy to your 22kW AC onboard charger isn’t relevant. The booster doubles the voltage of the standard 50kW DC onboard charger which is 400v.

 

[BigBob]

Asset plate located on EVSE will quote the voltage. Likely need to get on your hands and knees to find it!

Note the required 800v component is a DC to DC voltage booster and not a charger and so the analogy to your 22kW AC onboard charger isn’t relevant. The booster doubles the voltage of the standard 50kW DC onboard charger which is 400v.

My only point really about the 22kw thingy, wasn’t anything to do with how it works. I know it’s just a faster ac charger.

It was really pertaining to poor advice from the dealership, as they thought it was definitely worth having (I have never used a 22kw ac evse) while he didn’t think the 150kw was worth bothering with I’m pretty sure he didn’t know about the 400/800v aspect of it. And I think he just had in his mind that people would only ever use IONITY!

I have found the odd plate on the occasional 150kw machine to discover it was 400v, hence slowish speed. It kind of is what it is once you’re there, but were there a way to find out if they were on 400 or 800v infrastructure in advance, it would be beneficial to know. Eg if there is a selection of 150kw chargers in a locality you could aim to go to an 800v one.

 

[W1NGE]

My only point really about the 22kw thingy, wasn’t anything to do with how it works. I know it’s just a faster ac charger.

It was really pertaining to poor advice from the dealership, as they thought it was definitely worth having (I have never used a 22kw ac evse) while he didn’t think the 150kw was worth bothering with I’m pretty sure he didn’t know about the 400/800v aspect of it. And I think he just had in his mind that people would only ever use IONITY!

I have found the odd plate on the occasional 150kw machine to discover it was 400v, hence slowish speed. It kind of is what it is once you’re there, but were there a way to find out if they were on 400 or 800v infrastructure in advance, it would be beneficial to know. Eg if there is a selection of 150kw chargers in a locality you could aim to go to an 800v one.

Understood.

I think that at the end of the day it is rare to get anywhere close to the headline kW EVSE rating that invariably we typically end up with slower charging. If we do max the EVSE out the duration tends to be short.

At least at 50kW units you almost always get a complete session at this rate (up to 85% charge).

My overall angst with this is that some of us figured it out ourselves with research at point of order in the early days when dealers were at best clueless. Add to this the low cost of the option it should have been standard to take the guesswork away for people who just want to charge and drive. I can't believe Porsche don't realise the legacy issue they've created as they likely know the charging behaviour captured per car per region by now and that 800v EVSEs are on the ascendency.

To assume Ionity would work for all was both foolhardy and I'll conceived. I believe there are at most 4 - 6 units in Scotland.

MFG lead the way here with multiple 800v 300kW being rolled out in many garage forecourts. The displays on the units even display the voltage from what I've seen.

Fortunately the new Macan and therefore Taycan facelift have made this glaring omission standard kit / architecture from what I understand.

 

[Scandinavian]

I think that at the end of the day it is rare to get anywhere close to the headline kW EVSE rating that invariably we typically end up with slower charging. If we do max the EVSE out the duration tends to be short.

Ionity in France and Germany will give you the maximum power, if the battery has been well prpared. However on my last trip, I am starting to think that the battery saving portion in the PCM (limiting charge to 200 kW), will charge to 80% faster than full power!

Look at the charge curves below! I have seen this a few times and feel that perhaps the battery overheats and limits the charge when using full power?? Anybody else seen something similar?

Charge with Full Power

Charge with Battery Saving switched on:

In either case it is impressive how quickly you can recharge the Taycan. Compared to many other cars , Audi, Polestar, Mercedes , I have often arrived last and left earliest! But of course you need to have the parameters correct, low SoC, right battery temp etc.

 

[BigBob]

Ionity in France and Germany will give you the maximum power, if the battery has been well prpared. However on my last trip, I am starting to think that the battery saving portion in the PCM (limiting charge to 200 kW), will charge to 80% faster than full power!

Look at the charge curves below! I have seen this a few times and feel that perhaps the battery overheats and limits the charge when using full power?? Anybody else seen something similar?

Charge with Full Power

Charge with Battery Saving switched on:

In either case it is impressive how quickly you can recharge the Taycan. Compared to many other cars , Audi, Polestar, Mercedes , I have often arrived last and left earliest! But of course you need to have the parameters correct, low SoC, right battery temp etc.

Maybe that's what the vehicle limiting charge icon on the EVSE was referring to. I do seem to have the battery protection box ticked, which i must admit wasn't a function/option i'd ever really thought about.
It's now unchecked as i don't use fast dc that often and i feel somewhat robbed if it's a lot less than hoped for!

Great graphs, well done.

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