🔋 Baseline for HV Battery SoH Performance (Battery Degradation Data by Taycan Owners)

[KLHubb]

@ciaranob,
Here is the data on the used Tayan Turbo I have recently bought.

1) Not available
2) 92.2%
3) 8,341
4) not available before 8,200 miles. None since.
5) Sept 21 (MY22)

Bought from a Porsche dealer on the 55° N so likely cool/cold climate (and now we are 150mile north of there so in cold climate now) - but dont get fooled by that. New York state is far hotter in the summer and far colder in the winter than the UK - and up where we are we rarely see temps over 85°F or below 20°F so few extremes.

Very interested in reading all the info in this thread (although I only read the first 3-4 pages and the last 3-4!). You are obviously focussing heavily on charging in hot climates as a source of battery degradation but I wonder if really cold weather also has an impact - but there are few cars in your data set. My day job is tech director of a company involved with Li battery recycling and turning the Li (and other recovered metals ie Nickel, Manganese and Cobalt) recovered into new oxides and forming new cathode materials, so I am familiar with the battery chemistry. LiFePO4's (and other Li chemistries) dont like being charged at below freezing so even low power regen would be a problem. My old Tesla M3 seemed to back off regen completly when the battery was cold (below zero after a cold night) but no idea how this is handled in the Taycan. I hope the BMS is good enough to avoid issues but your type of data would confirm if there are any issues.

I'll try and keep a track of SoH as the mileage builds.

I live in upstate NY and have operated my 2020 4S continuously for 3.5 years. I had no problems with the cold, until I tried using Sport Plus in 15 degrees F one morning. As I accelerated, I suddenly lost all power and it displayed at the Tortoise on the front screen. I stopped briefly, powered off and on, then put it into Normal. After that all was fine. My guess is that the software sensed that I was drawing too much power from a very cold battery, and shut me down. This has only happened once, and since, I don't use Sport Plus below 32F. Otherwise the car has been entirely problem free since purchase in summer 2020. I have not yet done a SOH but see mileage in photo attached, taken last summer

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[ciaranob]

I live in upstate NY and have operated my 2020 4S continuously for 3.5 years. I had no problems with the cold, until I tried using Sport Plus in 15 degrees F one morning. As I accelerated, I suddenly lost all power and it displayed at the Tortoise on the front screen. I stopped briefly, powered off and on, then put it into Normal. After that all was fine. My guess is that the software sensed that I was drawing too much power from a very cold battery, and shut me down. This has only happened once, and since, I don't use Sport Plus below 32F. Otherwise the car has been entirely problem free since purchase in summer 2020. I have not yet done a SOH but see mileage in photo attached, taken last summer

So this reading from ca 2 years ago I assume given '22 tag expiry? Even with this low mileage (7.2 K miles) that beats my best observed guessometer prediction which was from end of my first year in 2022 - that was 296 miles range in range mode with AC off. 2.5 years and essentially zero issues too.

Would be great to get your present mileage and Soh - the OBDII readers are super cheap and CarScanner sw free - no pressure !

 

[KLHubb]

I do plan to get an OBDII very soon, unless I can get my Porsche tech to do one with his PIWI.
This reading was in Range with no accessories active, on Michelin PS4's. The terrain in Upstate NY is slightly hilly, so I take advantage of hills to do lots of coasting. Using this technique at interstate highway speed, I can easily approach 300 miles range. The attached photo was in Normal, with mixed local and expressway travel to my dealer in Syracuse, on Pirelli EV winter tires.

 

[freeforall]

I do plan to get an OBDII very soon, unless I can get my Porsche tech to do one with his PIWI.
This reading was in Range with no accessories active, on Michelin PS4's. The terrain in Upstate NY is slightly hilly, so I take advantage of hills to do lots of coasting. Using this technique at interstate highway speed, I can easily approach 300 miles range. The attached photo was in Normal, with mixed local and expressway travel to my dealer in Syracuse, on Pirelli EV winter tires.

I don’t know how you guys get this kind of range. I’ve never been able to do a trip below 31 kWh/100mi even when I tried extremely hard in good conditions (just for test purposes since I usually drive my car as a Porsche and don’t care about range).
When I got a 4S CT loaner I noticed that it consumed much less than my RWD ST. So I am starting to think it has something to do with a RWD car but I am not sure what exactly:
- is it possible that RWD is not able to do as much recuperation as the 4S when braking because it has only one motor? I am thinking one motor is not enough for the majority of braking situations and mechanical braking help is always needed
- is it possible that using one motor to move a heavy car is less efficient than using 2 motors in a much gentle way?

Any thoughts on this? Anyone with RWD car noticed similar difference between RWD and AWD versions?
Initially I thought that RWD would be the most range efficient version but real world driving seems to tell otherwise.

 

[f1eng]

is it possible that RWD is not able to do as much recuperation as the 4S when braking because it has only one motor? I am thinking one motor is not enough for the majority of braking situations and mechanical braking help is always needed

It clearly won’t have as high a capacity of regenerative braking as the AWD cars but I don’t think it is likely to be a big factor in range difference, there will be lower mechanical losses in the RWD.
I would guess the power meter is correctly calibrated for all models and I have never seen the regenerative power meter get to full scale when travelling on a run - I don’t look if pressing on.
Have a look and see if you are often topping out regeneration next time you drive.

 

[freeforall]

It clearly won’t have as high a capacity of regenerative braking as the AWD cars but I don’t think it is likely to be a big factor in range difference, there will be lower mechanical losses in the RWD.
I would guess the power meter is correctly calibrated for all models and I have never seen the regenerative power meter get to full scale when travelling on a run - I don’t look if pressing on.
Have a look and see if you are often topping out regeneration next time you drive.

? good call, I will try to monitor the power meter when braking in different scenarios. And if I am lucky enough I will get the 4S as a loaner soon to compare in similar scenarios.

Also rethinking about this, on a RWD, will regen brake on the rear wheels only? For the front wheels, will it always be mechanic brakes that are used? If that’s the case the power meter won’t help. As it will show the rear axle status only and even it doesn’t top out regen, mechanical brakes are always used on the front axle. Or am I getting this wrong? ?

 

[f1eng]

? good call, I will try to monitor the power meter when braking in different scenarios. And if I am lucky enough I will get the 4S as a loaner soon to compare in similar scenarios.

Also rethinking about this, on a RWD, will regen brake on the rear wheels only? For the front wheels, will it always be mechanic brakes that are used? If that’s the case the power meter won’t help. As it will show the rear axle status only and even it doesn’t top out regen, mechanical brakes are always used on the front axle. Or am I getting this wrong? ?

I had assumed that for moderate braking only the rear axle is braked using regeneration, so no braking on the front at all until needed.

 

[Avantgarde]

I had assumed that for moderate braking only the rear axle is braked using regeneration, so no braking on the front at all until needed.

I have the noisy PSCBs on my RWD and I can tell most of the time when they are engaged. Typically in straight line braking front pads don’t seem to engage unless you slam on the brakes. But when there is a steering angle (even if it is a light curve) during braking, i start to hear the front pads engaging.

 

[freeforall]

I have the noisy PSCBs on my RWD and I can tell most of the time when they are engaged. Typically in straight line braking front pads don’t seem to engage unless you slam on the brakes. But when there is a steering angle (even if it is a light curve) during braking, i start to hear the front pads engaging.

Good insights. Now I know that I need to drive my Taycan like a Kart ? always brake before the curve and never inside ?

 

[Avantgarde]

Good insights. Now I know that I need to drive my Taycan like a Kart ? always brake before the curve and never inside ?

Twin motor taycans (4 or 4s) are more efficient than rwd in low speed citi driving, due to recoup advantage. RWD becomes more efficient vs others in highway driving where brakes are use dless (arguably this is the scenario where range matters more). However given EVs reach their highest efficiency figures in city driving, it is likely the lowest consumption you’d ever see would be in a 4 or 4s vs rwd.

 

[Tincan]

Date	Odometer (miles)	State of Health
2021-09	0	(Build date)
2021-11	1k	98% (Delivered)
2023-03	20k	90%
2023-05	23k	88.4%
2024-01	32k	87.12%
2024-02	34k	87.76%

This is for a MY2021 CT4 living in a "cool" climate (Seattle area). I don't have the charging numbers since the My Porsche app seems to have forgotten everything since last time I renewed the Porsche Charging service, but I would estimate a good 50% of it has been charged via DC.

The app reports 31.4 kWh/100mi for the last 33k miles, so about 5.3MWh of DCFC (although I feel like real life numbers are closer to 33-34 at best, that 31.4 looks pretty optimistic from experience)

 

[freeforall]

Twin motor taycans (4 or 4s) are more efficient than rwd in low speed citi driving, due to recoup advantage. RWD becomes more efficient vs others in highway driving where brakes are use dless (arguably this is the scenario where range matters more). However given EVs reach their highest efficiency figures in city driving, it is likely the lowest consumption you’d ever see would be in a 4 or 4s vs rwd.

Interesting, thanks. Yes I noticed that I have extremely high consumption in the city. Consistently above 35 kWh/100km (55 kWh/100 mi) whereas a 4S was around 25kwh/100km (40 kWh/100 mi) for similar types of trips and driving.
As for the highway I did not do a lot of trips with the 4S to have a solid comparaison but 4S figures seemed to be slightly more efficient. One thing to note though, the only highway comparaison I did was in a road that goes up and down (recup played a role there probably) and also it wasn’t a very high speed highway (70 mi/h limitation). So you are right consumption figures between 4S and RWD seems to be closer for non city driving and might even better on RWD for highway roads with limited recup opportunities.

Thanks everyone, these all good insights which help me understand my car slightly better (and hope it will help others)

 

[KLHubb]

I find that the best mileage results in the obvious recommendations below:

Turn all unnecessary accessories off, use the battery energy only for motion, and don't waste the resulting kinetic energy. Use Range mode if you prefer, but I get good results in Normal.

Use coasting rather than regen mode while moving, and recover energy through braking rather than regen when you must slow down/stop. Regen does recover energy, but there are obvious parasitic losses, so leave the energy as kinetic energy as much as possible. This car is very slippery, so once put in motion, it will stay in motion for a long time.

Let gravity be your friend by coasting wherever you can....thus accumulating miles without battery consumption. On hills where I need to control going too fast, I do use regen.

I travel at or above posted speeds, but if you really want to extend mileage use legal speeds, since wind losses vary with the cube of velocity. By the way, I have not worried to much about tire pressure on my Michelin SP4'S.

This works for me when I need range, and the weather is benign, but I don't let it ruin my fun with this amazing vehicle....my Valentine still gets plenty of use.

 

[Tooney]

I find that the best mileage results in the obvious recommendations below:

Turn all unnecessary accessories off, use the battery energy only for motion, and don't waste the resulting kinetic energy. Use Range mode if you prefer, but I get good results in Normal.

Use coasting rather than regen mode while moving, and recover energy through braking rather than regen when you must slow down/stop. Regen does recover energy, but there are obvious parasitic losses, so leave the energy as kinetic energy as much as possible. This car is very slippery, so once put in motion, it will stay in motion for a long time.

Let gravity be your friend by coasting wherever you can....thus accumulating miles without battery consumption. On hills where I need to control going too fast, I do use regen.

I travel at or above posted speeds, but if you really want to extend mileage use legal speeds, since wind losses vary with the cube of velocity. By the way, I have not worried to much about tire pressure on my Michelin SP4'S.

This works for me when I need range, and the weather is benign, but I don't let it ruin my fun with this amazing vehicle....my Valentine still gets plenty of use.

Good info, and great looking car, when you can see it not covered with snow!

 

[rim23]

1) unknown
2) 90.17%
3) 53k km
4) unknown until 32k km. Only 3 times since that time. All the rest is 2.2 kWh home charging
5) MY2021

I have also reading at about 49k that I did last October. SOH was 87.88% back then. I did not do any recalibrations before. Except that I discharged the car to about 5% a couple of times since I got it at 32k km.

I did a recalibration today and let the car to sit at 15% overnight. Let’s see what it’ll report after some time

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