Underbody Protection Panel damaged. Batteries and coolant lines need inspection. $72.5K replacement & labor cost. Dealership is Tom Wood in Indiana

[ShiftyWolf]

Those familiar with law in the US.

Considering what's gone on - Is this a good time to be considering appointing a lawyer?

Probably, yes IMO. Dealerships and mechanics shops have strong lobbies that have gotten laws passed in many states, very favorable to them and not the consumer. At this point, it seems like OP may be stuck with either the agreed upon insurance paid cost or getting an attorney involved.

This sounds like one of those things that will eventually become good law (repair shops must actually charge to fix the problem and can't just quote you a full battery because they lack experience with EV repairs) but someone will have to be the first to press the issue.

@Maelstrom , this really sucks for you and I hope you are able to find resolution in your case.

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[Maelstrom]

The one thing from yesterday was the emergence of the Core replacement at $12k that has to be paid up front - first time I'd heard of it and that's why the claim is now $56k. It's like they're making things up - I did get a follow-on text after my call clarifying the figures:

I appreciate the call back. I've spoken to the team and we will submit the charges for your claim to your insurance on Monday. The hope is that they will see sense in covering the freight charge and expediting your battery. Realistically, if we get the shipping approved, I would imagine that Porsche would find a battery for us without that long of a wait. It could potentially save your insurance company money as they then don't have to keep you in the rental as long. We will need to get the battery paid in order to order it. If you are available to stop by next week to pay for the battery, we can get the process started. Realistically, if you or the insurance covers the $5500 freight charge we could potentially put you back in our loaner while we wait for the battery to arrive. That would keep the cost down and you could drive a Porsche again instead of the rental they have you in. We can discuss our options at the beginning of the week.


Yet more money!!!

 

[satchurator]

I wonder if there is a aftermarket opportunity to have a retrofit titanium plate to provide additional protection for the critical center zone where the 3.3mm deviation limit is defined.

I'm not talking about replacing the entire existing plate, but rather adding to it. Something shaped like the F1 skid plank used for policing rideheight. (cc @f1eng)

IIRC removing/replacing the entire plate requires de-energizing the HV battery, whereas perhaps an additive titanium plate could be done where it would somehow reuse the existing fasteners and not require a high-cost/danger disassembly of that area.

@bsclywilly here's an idea for your next fabrication project

 

[DerekS]

I appreciate the call back. I've spoken to the team and we will submit the charges for your claim to your insurance on Monday. The hope is that they will see sense in covering the freight charge and expediting your battery.

It sounds like you've made a decision - probably the "safest" one to go ahead with a battery as it will retain your warranty and some semblence of resale. And there won't be any nagging questions about what-if.

I am very interested to follow what insurance does, as you're very dangerously close to total market value with all this.

 

[Caraholic]

If things don’t get sorted out I would reach out to a local news outlet. They would love something like this with all the anti ev

 

[DerekS]

I started researching what it would take to replace the battery cover...perhaps it's more involved than a couple-dozen screws as I originally thought.

Apparently there is adhesive which needs to be cut through, cleaned off and reapplied.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2021/MC-10194786-0001.pdf

Still extortionately priced though.

 

[gtm]

I started researching what it would take to replace the battery cover...perhaps it's more involved than a couple-dozen screws as I originally thought.

Apparently there is adhesive which needs to be cut through, cleaned off and reapplied.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2021/MC-10194786-0001.pdf

Still extortionately priced though.

I'm pretty sure those parts are for the top cover/sealing plate for the battery. The piece subject to pressure testing under APB2. It's not the protection cover, which from a quick look under my car is a couple-dozen bolts (from your post #454 I'm assuming you mean the protection plate). @Maelstrom is getting totally hosed on removing and replacing his protection plate to get his car out of this dealership. I'd love to see the flat rate labor allowed for R&R of the protection plate. Can't find it online but I'd be surprised if it was more than 4 hours (probably not even that). Could be more to the way it is attached to the battery but it looks to be simply bolted in place.

 

[DerekS]

@Maelstrom is getting totally hosed on removing and replacing his protection plate to get his car out of this dealership

From the context of the email chain it sounds like he has decided to allow the full replacement and let insurance fight it out. Probably the wisest move TBH, despite how bullshit this whole thing is.

 

[gtm]

From the context of the email chain it sounds like he has decided to allow the full replacement and let insurance fight it out. Probably the wisest move TBH, despite how bullshit this whole thing is.

What really fries my shorts, as someone who repaired cars for a living for over 25 years, is that what the dealership is doing is just replacing parts. Any idiot can do that. Diagnose the battery to see if there really is anything that needs to be repaired other than the protection plate. That coolant channel runs under specific modules. Road test the car and stress the battery (a bunch of launches). Any indication that the cell temps for those specific cells are any hotter than the surrounding cells? This is a total money grab by a dealership, and possibly PCNA, being unable or unwilling to actually diagnose the battery.

I get opting to just replace the battery to keep the warranty intact. But the very least Porsche could do is present data indicating a battery problem from the dent. I haven't even seen where the coolant channel dent was measured.

 

[Tooney]

I'm pretty sure those parts are for the top cover/sealing plate for the battery. The piece subject to pressure testing under APB2. It's not the protection cover, which from a quick look under my car is a couple-dozen bolts (from your post #454 I'm assuming you mean the protection plate). @Maelstrom is getting totally hosed on removing and replacing his protection plate to get his car out of this dealership. I'd love to see the flat rate labor allowed for R&R of the protection plate. Can't find it online but I'd be surprised if it was more than 4 hours (probably not even that). Could be more to the way it is attached to the battery but it looks to be simply bolted in place.

Per the following TSB, replacing the entire HV battery and leak testing the replacement is about 10 hours labor in total. Removing the underbody protective guard should not be much of that time.
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2023/MC-10233932-0001.pdf

 

[Tooney]

 

[DerekS]

So if a battery is 26650 with no mention of a core exchange, WTF is going on here?

 

[Uknown]

Oh my goodness what a shitty email and set of non option options. (Get screwed by us, or get screwed by us)… I am surprised they can charge a diagnostic fee regardless of price and not return the car to its original state. Especially without disclosing this.

I am not totally surprised at the dealers indifference, Porsche buyers must grow on trees, as my experience while generally fine is that Porsche and Dealers could really give a shit if they sell you a car or not. It seems like this dealership doesn’t care if you remain a customer.

I love my Taycan and also am perplexed why a service shop doesn’t too. There have been lots of recall work items to do which presumably the dealership service gets paid for, every time I get a loaner for warranty work the dealer gets paid for that too as far as I am aware (via Porsche).

Based on what I see from this thread The whole behavior of the dealership and Porsche (until they do something to improve this) is pretty shitty and gross. This may not be illegal but aspects of it should be.
- not providing a clear estimate with materials and labor broken down
- not being able to provide a disclosure that the diagnostic fee is destructive and doesn’t include putting the car back together to its previous state.
- not providing any proof there is an issue with the battery or electrical system which puts the car at risk or a safety concern.
- not showing any real damage beyond a small dent so close to out of spec it could be mis measured easily (not correctly calibrated tool, bad manual alignment or pressure) the only picture shared at least is a person under a car that doesn’t look lifted enough to stand straight holding a tool by hand to measure while taking a photo with the other hand? (Guessing )
- if they removed the plate why can’t they show the damage which requires more replacement.
- what diagnostics did they do?

- from what you have shared it appears they have a real lack of urgency, and have changed positions multiple times to charge you for that with a holding fee while also not providing options to reclaim your property feels slimy

- suggesting the battery is damaged without data (at least that we have seen here)
- it is one thing for a tire shop to take a tire of and show you that it is too dangerous to repair or drive on without replacement. This feels more like a quest of unknowing and make believe on the dealers part..

When my battery was discharged /re charged to replace the front subframe I got a 13ish page print out with the tech initials and dates which if memory serves me showed before and after values and while not as detailed as I had hoped it was still pretty detailed.



I would also ask my insurance company if they would meet me onsite for Porsche to walk through all of the data and estimates and bills in person. It seems like it is in their best interest too to see this first hand. Feels low risk but I am not a lawyer and at times am too idealistic .

It is a shame Porsche is silent, I wonder if jt is a lack of awareness, or if they simply don’t care about their business. https://newsroom.porsche.com/en_US/...utives/christine-russell-fleischer-35770.html. “ Under her leadership, Customer Experience is in charge of innovative CRM practices, driving improvements in customer satisfaction and loyalty within PCNA and its dealer network, distilling market research and consumer insights, focusing and coordinating improvements with Vehicle Initial Quality, and overseeing Porsche Contact Center operations.”. Maybe she hasn’t been there long enough for the new innovation, but if your experience is it, I don’t want a taste of it. For $56k you could invite this VP out to Indiana to meet with the dealer and your insurance company too , a little first hand knowledge in the field.

I am really sorry you are going through this. Hope Porsche makes it right.

 

[Tooney]

Based on what I see from this thread The whole behavior of the dealership and Porsche (until they do something to improve this) is pretty shitty and gross. This may not be illegal but aspects of it should be.
- not providing a clear estimate with materials and labor broken down
- not being able to provide a disclosure that the diagnostic fee is destructive and doesn’t include putting the car back together to its previous state.
- not providing any proof there is an issue with the battery or electrical system which puts the car at risk or a safety concern.
- not showing any real damage beyond a small dent so close to out of spec it could be mis measured easily (not correctly calibrated tool, bad manual alignment or pressure) the only picture shared at least is a person under a car that doesn’t look lifted enough to stand straight holding a tool by hand to measure while taking a photo with the other hand? (Guessing )
- if they removed the plate why can’t they show the damage which requires more replacement.
- what diagnostics did they do?

- from what you have shared it appears they have a real lack of urgency, and have changed positions multiple times to charge you for that with a holding fee while also not providing options to reclaim your property feels slimy

- suggesting the battery is damaged without data (at least that we have seen here)
- it is one thing for a tire shop to take a tire of and show you that it is too dangerous to repair or drive on without replacement. This feels more like a quest of unknowing and make believe on the dealers part..

These are excellent points. Especially the ones I underlined above.
I suspect OP is dealing with the wrong dealer, who is in the position of holding his car hostage (won't release it without de-energizing the battery after he drove it into dealer with no battery errors). Very difficult for the owner to "get a second opinion & cost estimate".

 

[Maelstrom]

Oh my goodness what a shitty email and set of non option options. (Get screwed by us, or get screwed by us)… I am surprised they can charge a diagnostic fee regardless of price and not return the car to its original state. Especially without disclosing this.

I am not totally surprised at the dealers indifference, Porsche buyers must grow on trees, as my experience while generally fine is that Porsche and Dealers could really give a shit if they sell you a car or not. It seems like this dealership doesn’t care if you remain a customer.

I love my Taycan and also am perplexed why a service shop doesn’t too. There have been lots of recall work items to do which presumably the dealership service gets paid for, every time I get a loaner for warranty work the dealer gets paid for that too as far as I am aware (via Porsche).

Based on what I see from this thread The whole behavior of the dealership and Porsche (until they do something to improve this) is pretty shitty and gross. This may not be illegal but aspects of it should be.
- not providing a clear estimate with materials and labor broken down
- not being able to provide a disclosure that the diagnostic fee is destructive and doesn’t include putting the car back together to its previous state.
- not providing any proof there is an issue with the battery or electrical system which puts the car at risk or a safety concern.
- not showing any real damage beyond a small dent so close to out of spec it could be mis measured easily (not correctly calibrated tool, bad manual alignment or pressure) the only picture shared at least is a person under a car that doesn’t look lifted enough to stand straight holding a tool by hand to measure while taking a photo with the other hand? (Guessing )
- if they removed the plate why can’t they show the damage which requires more replacement.
- what diagnostics did they do?

- from what you have shared it appears they have a real lack of urgency, and have changed positions multiple times to charge you for that with a holding fee while also not providing options to reclaim your property feels slimy

- suggesting the battery is damaged without data (at least that we have seen here)
- it is one thing for a tire shop to take a tire of and show you that it is too dangerous to repair or drive on without replacement. This feels more like a quest of unknowing and make believe on the dealers part..

When my battery was discharged /re charged to replace the front subframe I got a 13ish page print out with the tech initials and dates which if memory serves me showed before and after values and while not as detailed as I had hoped it was still pretty detailed.



I would also ask my insurance company if they would meet me onsite for Porsche to walk through all of the data and estimates and bills in person. It seems like it is in their best interest too to see this first hand. Feels low risk but I am not a lawyer and at times am too idealistic .

It is a shame Porsche is silent, I wonder if jt is a lack of awareness, or if they simply don’t care about their business. https://newsroom.porsche.com/en_US/...utives/christine-russell-fleischer-35770.html. “ Under her leadership, Customer Experience is in charge of innovative CRM practices, driving improvements in customer satisfaction and loyalty within PCNA and its dealer network, distilling market research and consumer insights, focusing and coordinating improvements with Vehicle Initial Quality, and overseeing Porsche Contact Center operations.”. Maybe she hasn’t been there long enough for the new innovation, but if your experience is it, I don’t want a taste of it. For $56k you could invite this VP out to Indiana to meet with the dealer and your insurance company too , a little first hand knowledge in the field.

I am really sorry you are going through this. Hope Porsche makes it right.

You've pretty much summed it up perfectly here - crappy pictures and no physical diagnostic data. What I'm interested in, and this is the path I'm probably going to take, is when they put my car together and I monitor those cells via an odb dongle and there's not temperature deviations (hopefully) is where they stand on that. Actual data to show that there's likely no damage to those lines - why would they waive the warranty at that point.
That being said - I did write to the PCNA president yesterday, at this point I don't have a lot to loose.
*edit* - to clarify - I'm going to ask them to put my car back together in a driveable state whilst waiting for the parts etc. I've been told this could be a couple of months or even longer and I don't want my car sitting in the dealership when it's drivable
I did email Christine a few weeks ago and it was as a result of that a PCNA CSR was assigned - but since the original introduction email it's been total crickets

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