Underbody Protection Panel damaged. Batteries and coolant lines need inspection. $72.5K replacement & labor cost. Dealership is Tom Wood in Indiana

[bluesky]

I have decided not to purchase a refresh J1.II Taycan Turbo with PAR, something I have been looking forward to actually for almost a year. I’m going to stop watching this forum and sign off.

I drove my M5 on typical backroads the other day, and had a great time because it was one of those record days where finally, there was noone in front of me to slow me down, the entire way out to my lunch spot, and almost all the way back to civilization (the freeway entrance). The roads are not that great, and the M5 with KW suspension from Germany tuned to the exact middle of performance vs. comfort is quite lively on the 4500 lb car, but I only lightly scraped twice, both in places I have memorized from 30 years of driving these roads so I know where to slow down because the dip or defect will be too much. I had no concern whatsoever that the M5 would be damaged.

I don’t see myself having this much fun with a Taycan, now that I probably would be constantly worrying about bottoming on something and getting hit with a pricey battery replacement. The new Turbo with PAR is already quite expensive, so Bay Area insurance will already be, and I fear for what premiums will cost me if word gets about how vulnerable the HV battery is, or worse yet, should I have a battery claim.

Sponsored

 

[bluesky]

I will also say these parting thoughts:

The dealer and clearly PCNA is not helping and not committed to any factual evidence based diagnosis and justification for the complete battery replacement. This is a warning sign. Besides sensor data, I believe that essentially the engineering drawing of the HV battery and tray along with careful measurements of the location of the 3.33 mm dent could be used in lieu of sensor data to maybe determine if the cooling line could be crushed at that location. As I recall from simple diagrams posted earlier, there is actually only a single line in that particular spot in the car. Obviously that alternative approach isn’t going to be explored.

Finally, I will point out that Taycan isn’t the only Porsche vehicle with HV battery problems and poor support from Porsche. The hybrids also have HV batteries, and while I was interested in Panamera for a while, I read those forums. Unfortunately, battery problems similar to Taycan also happen with those cars, and are also sometimes met with similar indifferent support by dealers including long multiple month waits (5) for a HV battery to be delivered and rip-offs as to the price for it and the labor (these are much smaller capacity batteries than for a BEV like Taycan). Porsche did not seem to step up their game with Taycan, and there’s no sign that they are ready for Macan EV either.

 

[DerekS]

Sorry to see you go @bluesky but I don’t blame you one bit.

I’m very likely done with the brand and it makes me sad.

 

[Visie]

To show others; this is what 2,5mm and 5mm looks like. Crazy something like this can total a vehicle

Your lucky! ??
But it made me think: now the dent is just below the treshhold. When you get hit on that same place agian, it wil be probably over the treshhold. Don’t you want to get the protective cover replaced? ?

 

[Jasper4S]

Your lucky! ??
But it made me think: now the dent is just below the treshhold. When you get hit on that same place agian, it wil be probably over the treshhold. Don’t you want to get the protective cover replaced? ?

Yes, I asked for a quote last Friday and will file a complaint to the city (they admitted the speed bumps are faulty) and ask them to pay for it. I expect to get things done coming weeks.

 

[Tooney]

More cases of Taycans with HV battery replaced because of underbody dent:

This forum: Damage to Battery shell - March, 2024 by @stlowe4

Reddit: Taycan Turbo S Experience Ends on a Sour Note - March - April 2024-

 

[DerekS]

More cases of Taycans with HV battery replaced because of underbody dent:

This forum: Damage to Battery shell - March, 2024 by @stlowe4

Reddit: Taycan Turbo S Experience Ends on a Sour Note - March - April 2024-

A clear pattern emerging.

 

[Scandinavian]

Sorry to see you go @bluesky. I can fully understand your decision. I have not had any issues to my knowledge with the underfloor protection as yet, but who knows when this can happen.

I also drove my F10 M5 Comp on a very long holiday trip and just loved it. ICE car like that is extremely expensive with Malus tax in France though, so not sure what to do since my M5 is UK registered. Importing it is crazy money after Brexit

I have had a lot of small niggles and issues and a few major with a battery red circle of death and lots of water leaking into the cabin. Plus I am on my 3rd cabin heater. And now reading all this thread with potential underfloor issues and the brake hose recall, I do not trust this car any longer. And am fed up with driving down to the dealer so often.

 

[DerekS]

I started thinking about this issue from another angle - what would make me feel ok about this situation? What could Porsche do to restore my faith in their EV products?

I acknowledge that there has to be a defined damage tolerance limit somewhere, and that exceeding that makes the dealerships twitchy because of the liability.
That does make sense.

3mm seems pretty small but I don't think changing that is necessarily the resolution, as it was probably reached by the engineers based on the design of the car. Let's assume it is what it is.

The only real issue here (to me) is how disproportionate the cost is to the overall value of the vehicle.

So what are some ways Porsche could remediate this? Brainstorming here...

1. Lean into battery repair over replacement. Ostensibly that's what this battery design is supposed to provide in the first place, right? This would also allow paying only for what is actually broken, retaining the rest of it. If an ICE motor had a leaking seal, you wouldn't do a total engine swap - you'd repair the seal. Same should apply here. Which leads me to my next point...
2. Expand HV tech training. Part of the reason swaps over repairs seem to be common is the lack of HV-certified techs available to work on them. If Porsche plans to keep expanding their EV offerings (and I do think they should) they need to make sure there are lots of experienced techs capable of doing repair work on the batteries.
3. Expand HV training to third parties. I realize this is counter to the profit center of the service department, but it could also help separate them from the liability and ease the supply/demand of HV techs. It would certainly bring the prices for owners down. They already have a third party doing battery work for the recall, why can't this facility do a battery "tray swap" for cases like @Maelstrom 's?
4. Offer a battery damage warranty as a product. Personally I would pay up to 5K for this to never worry about the battery pan again. 5K against 50-72K seems like an easy decision.
5. Offer evaluation and installation of customer-sourced batteries. Seeing how cheaply a used battery can be found on eBay (less than 5K) or via wholesalers makes me really favor that solution if I run into a battery problem, especially if I can't get insurance to cover it. As long as the battery is a Porsche-stamped part, and it passes their pressure/voltage tests (which already exist) there should be no reason a customer can't pay for labor only to do the swap. I wonder if third parties are capable of doing the swap now? I don't know if the battery is somehow coded to the car and needs PWIS to change...
6. Offer an improved battery cover. Something with titanium shielding at the key points likely to cause damage.
7. Just lower the parts costs. If this whole replacement was a 15-20K operation (as it is on Tesla) we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

Any other ideas?

 

[TXAG]

Any other ideas?

How about increasing the gap between the top of battery cover and the bottom of the batteries?

 

[Scandinavian]

I started thinking about this issue from another angle - what would make me feel ok about this situation? What could Porsche do to restore my faith in their EV products?

I acknowledge that there has to be a defined damage tolerance limit somewhere, and that exceeding that makes the dealerships twitchy because of the liability.
That does make sense.

3mm seems pretty small but I don't think changing that is necessarily the resolution, as it was probably reached by the engineers based on the design of the car. Let's assume it is what it is.

The only real issue here (to me) is how disproportionate the cost is to the overall value of the vehicle.

So what are some ways Porsche could remediate this? Brainstorming here...

1. Lean into battery repair over replacement. Ostensibly that's what this battery design is supposed to provide in the first place, right? This would also allow paying only for what is actually broken, retaining the rest of it. If an ICE motor had a leaking seal, you wouldn't do a total engine swap - you'd repair the seal. Same should apply here. Which leads me to my next point...
2. Expand HV tech training. Part of the reason swaps over repairs seem to be common is the lack of HV-certified techs available to work on them. If Porsche plans to keep expanding their EV offerings (and I do think they should) they need to make sure there are lots of experienced techs capable of doing repair work on the batteries.
3. Expand HV training to third parties. I realize this is counter to the profit center of the service department, but it could also help separate them from the liability and ease the supply/demand of HV techs. It would certainly bring the prices for owners down. They already have a third party doing battery work for the recall, why can't this facility do a battery "tray swap" for cases like @Maelstrom 's?
4. Offer a battery damage warranty as a product. Personally I would pay up to 5K for this to never worry about the battery pan again. 5K against 50-72K seems like an easy decision.
5. Offer evaluation and installation of customer-sourced batteries. Seeing how cheaply a used battery can be found on eBay (less than 5K) or via wholesalers makes me really favor that solution if I run into a battery problem, especially if I can't get insurance to cover it. As long as the battery is a Porsche-stamped part, and it passes their pressure/voltage tests (which already exist) there should be no reason a customer can't pay for labor only to do the swap. I wonder if third parties are capable of doing the swap now? I don't know if the battery is somehow coded to the car and needs PWIS to change...
6. Offer an improved battery cover. Something with titanium shielding at the key points likely to cause damage.
7. Just lower the parts costs. If this whole replacement was a 15-20K operation (as it is on Tesla) we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

Any other ideas?

Very valid points Derek!

But I feel you miss the most critical one in my mind. Why is the cooling circuit so close to the protection plate that it can make such a dent in the cooling channels. Why is the cooling plate not inside of the steel frame housing the battery cells. If it is for water vs electricity then why not have further fixing points so that the flex is reduced?

From what I see in the picturesit would not really make any difference if the dent on the outside was 3 mm only vs 3.33 mm. The cooling channels would have been squeezedanyhow I think. That steel plate is flexing too much and is too close to the cooling plate. I can understand that Porsche would not like to increase the distance as that would increase the cars height.
Wonder why they have not hot a layer of some dense rubber or foam between the protection plate and the cooling plate that could distribute the pressure over a larger area.

In summary I believe the Taycan was rushed to get to market and failed miserably

 

[Jasper4S]

To ease the pain a bit. This is the first big thread since 2019 when the vehicle was available. So last 5-ish year we went through this. Not denying it is a design fault, but the issue is not as big as we think. 150k (not counting the audis) units sold, and after 5 years a dozen of stories about this issue. Every one is one too many. But we are not driving ticking time bombs.

I do believe we are victims of Porsche-taxed reparation costs. 70k buys me a brand new VW ev, with the same capacity battery and a whole vehicle around it. Or even three Dacia EV’s with 170% battery capacity of the Taycan. So the price of the repair is the problem IMO.

 

[rim23]

[*]Offer a battery damage warranty as a product. Personally I would pay up to 5K for this to never worry about the battery pan again. 5K against 50-72K seems like an easy decision.

Mmm, sweet. Are you also “working” for Porsche?

If there are 150k cars sold, 2% buys the protection, it’s 15M profit out of nothing.

 

[DerekS]

Mmm, sweat. Are you also “working” for Porsche?

If there are 150k cars sold, 2% buys the protection, it’s 15M profit out of nothing.

Sweat?

 

[rim23]

Sweat?

Corrected ?

Sponsored