GridServe on Porsche charging service

[Throb]

I don't think its meaningless - total cost plus a breakdown. I'd call that price transparency.

Porsche customers pay 75p for the fastest possible EVSE in UK. Granted only J1.2 Taycan might draw 300kwh but that's what 16 miles / minute!

No idea what a PAYG user might pay.

Only Ionity for Porsche don't additionally charge per minute (they do for others) and so a bargain at 31p.

I have no issue with Porsche's transparency. I'm talking about your quote of "75p". It's meaningless. 75p what? You've added together the price per kWh and the price per minute and got a meaningless number.

So what is the 75p relating to in your reckoning?

Ionity is 30p/kWh, not 31p.

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[Throb]

The addition of Gridserve into the PCS universe is a big deal, IMHO. As long as you get typical charging speeds when using them, it effectively reduces the price per kWh from 79p to between 42p and 52p.

Sure, more than Ionity at 30p/kWh, but Gridserve bring a lot of new locations to the table. And, using 50 kW units isn't necessarily much more expensive per kWh, as the price/min is lower on 50 kW units (as long as using PCS), so a typical 50 kW charge can be had for around 59p/kWh, compared with 79p/kWh paying Gridserve directly.

I've created the chart below which hopefuly some find useful. It shows typcial scenarios and the cost for each scenario depending on using PCS, Gridserve, and Ionity (via PCS).

 

[Throb]

 

[tigerbalm]

It would be interesting @Throb if you included the new Porsche Charging Service rates in that spreadsheet. They have higher kWh price but no timing aspect for either AC or DC chargers outside of overstay fees.

I think what you have shown is the J1 legacy "Porsche Charging Service – Taycan" which is no longer available for new owners (even second hand buyers).

https://www.porsche.com/international/charging-service-plus-prices/

 

[Throb]

It would be interesting @Throb if you included the new Porsche Charging Service rates in that spreadsheet. They have higher kWh price but no timing aspect for either AC or DC chargers outside of overstay fees.

I think what you have shown is the J1 legacy "Porsche Charging Service – Taycan" which is no longer available for new owners (even second hand buyers).

https://www.porsche.com/international/charging-service-plus-prices/

I'll have a go at updating it. I only concentrated on the legacy PCS as that's the one I have, and I assume the majority still have on here. I also didn't want the chart to look too cluttered.

 

[Scandinavian]

Costs are also easy to find if you located a gridserve EVSE in My Porsche Map - both charges are clearly displayed - energy and time. I notice that we have 2 x 460KW (yes, 460 KW) sites in Scotland. 31p / kWh and 44p per min = 75p.

Well you can not add the kWh price and the time element to get that value of 75p per kWh. It will be much less. It most like will come out at somewhere in the region of45 p per kWh!

That has been in line with my experience at 300 kW stations at least.
And the latest pricing from Porsche Charging Service has also ditched the per minute charge and unfortunately, raised the kWh price. I guess some are still enjoying the price levels of the inclusive period, but new owners will pay £0.39 per kWh at Ionity.. And no per minute charge when using other included networks.

 

[Throb]

Updated the chart to include the new "Porsche Charging Service Plus" prices.

 

[tigerbalm]

Updated the chart to include the new "Porsche Charging Service Plus" prices.

It's dramatically more expensive then the legacy plan even for the longer charges.

 

[Throb]

It's dramatically more expensive then the legacy plan even for the longer charges.

Yep. The new PCS Plus is ridiculously expensive. You may as well just go with Ionity Passport.

When I get time later, I'll tweak the chart to show a more varied range of situations.

 

[W1NGE]

Well you can not add the kWh price and the time element to get that value of 75p per kWh. It will be much less. It most like will come out at somewhere in the region of45 p per kWh!

That has been in line with my experience at 300 kW stations at least.
And the latest pricing from Porsche Charging Service has also ditched the per minute charge and unfortunately, raised the kWh price. I guess some are still enjoying the price levels of the inclusive period, but new owners will pay £0.39 per kWh at Ionity.. And no per minute charge when using other included networks.

The distinction is that public charging remains unnecessarily high and apparently the more time you spend charging (which you can't control or pre-determine with any degree of accuracy) the more expensive it tends to become.

The worst scenario (say I want 30kWh of a top up) is assuming you can draw as much power as quickly as possible from an EVSE that is guaranteed to deliver (if the car can accept) up to its maximum (within reason) and find out that you max at 50kW and pay a premium for the pleasure when the stall opposite might only be 50kW max and a lower overall charge for the same top up. To level the playing field the time element should be pro rata the power delivered which as far as I'm aware that never happens (yet).

Per minute is charged with many of the providers signed up to the Porsche Charging Service - Gridserve being the topical one today. Only Ionity waives this.

Fortunately I only ever public charge twice a month at most and enjoy my home £0.07p rate at anytime of the day when the grid permits. Cheap as proverbial chips. Ionity is 4 miles from my front door as is ESB (who charge what Ionity would charge if not part of the Porsche Charging Service) should I ever feel the need. Not everyone is as fortunate of course.

 

[Murph7355]

I posted the maths up thread.

I doubt it will be near 42ppkWh. But I do think it will be less than a walk up customer.

Of course once PCS is chargeable (after 3yrs?) then it will depend on the charge (sic) and how often you need to plug in.

 

[Throb]

I posted the maths up thread.

I doubt it will be near 42ppkWh. But I do think it will be less than a walk up customer.

Of course once PCS is chargeable (after 3yrs?) then it will depend on the charge (sic) and how often you need to plug in.

Your maths is what prompted me to make that chart and look at it in more detail. 53 kW or more average charging speed appears to be correct in terms of making Gridserve cheaper via PCS.

42p/kWh is definitely achievable, and that's based on my own real world data. The chart shows this. It would have to be a quick blast of energy, however. Most of the time, you would be able to achieve 45-50p/kWh.

My highest ever rate of charge was at Cobham Ionity, where I added 42.79 kWh of energy in ten minutes, which works out at an average of 256.7 kW. If that was a Gridserve location, then it would work out at 41p/kWh.

 

[Murph7355]

I've had similar.

I live about 10 miles from the first Gridserve dedicate charging place and used it a lot before getting a home charger. It was quite a nice place to visit... And needed to again a couple of weeks ago when we had a day long home power outage.

I think the PCS arrangement is £360 a year after the first 3yrs though. Which would take a lump out of the savings.

 

[Throb]

I've had similar.

I live about 10 miles from the first Gridserve dedicate charging place and used it a lot before getting a home charger. It was quite a nice place to visit... And needed to again a couple of weeks ago when we had a day long home power outage.

I think the PCS arrangement is £360 a year after the first 3yrs though. Which would take a lump out of the savings.

It is stupidly expensive. I don't know why anybody would bother paying for it. There are plenty of Ionity sites in the pipeline, and you can get virtually the same kWh rate with them (0.43p) with their Passport membership, and that's only £10.50 per month as opposed to Porsche charging £29.99!!

What's also strange is that the UK is much more expensive than the EU, where the membership is €24.99 per month (around £20), and the rates per kWh are 0.39 € ct per kWh (just over 30p).

 

[Throb]

I've tidied up my chart now to remove the Gridserve direct prices, and to show a more varied spread of situations.

What is worth noting is that it's actually cheaper to use a 150 kW charger compared to a 350 kW charger if you're going to be charging for longer than around 12 minutes. Charge on a 350 kW and experience tapering then you're still paying the higher price per minute. Use a 350 kW for too long and you'll average close to 150 kW anyway, in which case just stick in a 150 kW unit from the start and hopefully maintain close to 150 kW for the whole charge, and pay less per minute.

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