The Chinese Xiaomi SU7, which mimics Porsche’s Taycan.

[chun]

they also likely copied the flaws in the battery, drivetrain & software as well so it is more likely the SU7 will be just as unreliable as the Taycan in the early models. I’m sure customers in China will take that trade off to save $90K.

Not sure what you are talking about here.

The batteries used in Taycan are about 6 generations behind the batteries used in the Xiaomi car. In fact the chemistry and design used by LG Poland was already dated even back then, because they would not produce their latest design and chemistry in Europe - and they still don't.

SU7 uses CATL CTP 3.0 "Qilin" batteries; with better max charging speed, static charging curve from 10 to 80%, better modular design with cooling in-between cells avoiding external damage - unlike the taycan, and more. CATL is the industry leader in battery manufacturing and technology by the way.

I will mention that this CTP 3.0 is also already 2 generations behind the latest and greatest batteries capable of 5C charging, is what Chinese call it. Aka constant speed of 500kw up to 80% and ranges of 600km+
These latest and greatest batteries you can see in 2025 Zeekr 001 and 007 EV , capable of "5.5C".

The Chinese are so far ahead in battery technology that they wouldn't really ever need to even have a look across the pond, at Porsche of all companies... Europe & USA are playing catch-up on this. CATL is planning to release first prototypes of solid state batteries in 2027, and in cars in 2030 - Europe is about 10 years away from this at current pace.

The drive train of the taycan is not unreliable, but no, Xiaomi didn't copy that either. Instead they just paid some of the best people in the industry 3-5x what they are paid normally to design a drive train for them, that can go from 1 electric motor all the way to 4 - they have not released any model with 4 motors.

Xiaomi is the leader in terms of software in China. They make EVERYTHING and the software for that everything.

So I wouldn't bet money on the SU7 being as unreliable as the taycan.

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[Cowtownhusker]

Not sure what you are talking about here.

The batteries used in Taycan are about 6 generations behind the batteries used in the Xiaomi car. In fact the chemistry and design used by LG Poland was already dated even back then, because they would not produce their latest design and chemistry in Europe - and they still don't.
It uses CATL CTP 3.0 "Qilin" batteries; with better max charging speed, static charging curve from 10 to 80%, better modular design with cooling in-between cells avoiding external damage - unlike the taycan, and more. CATL is the industry leader in battery manufacturing and technology by the way.

I will mention that this CTP 3.0 is also already 2 generations behind the latest and gratest batteries capable of 5C charging, is what chinese call it. Aka constant speed of 500kw up to 80% and ranges of 600km+
These latest and greates batteries you can see in 2025 Zeekr 001 and 007 EV , capable of "5.5C".

The Chinese are so far ahead in battery technology that they wouldn't really ever need to even have a look across the pond, at Porsche of all companies... Europe & USA are playing catch-up on this. CATL is planning to release first protorypes of solid state batteies in 2027, and in cars in 2030 - europe is about 10 years away from this at current pace.

The drive train of the taycan is not unreliable, but no, Xiaomi didn't copy that either. Instead they just paid some of the best people in the industry 3-5x what they are paid normally to design a drive train for them, that can go from 1 electric motor all the way to 4 - they have not released any model with 4 motors.

Xiaomi is the leader in terms of software in China. They make EVERYTHING and the software for that everything.

So I wouldn't bet money on the SU7 being as unreliable as the taycan.

They are the "Apple" of China as well as GE and Microsoft along with government support

 

[007]

Thank god LG Poland batteries were used… that means I’ll probably get a new battery replacement soon ?

 

[BjörnfromHamburg]

Now I want to be Chinese

 

[Gino]

This crash has been misrepresented on this forum so many times...
The whole premise of the video was to drive the car until it crashes. So it was driven hard, until the brakes overheated and gave out. The brakes are standard off the shelf brembo brakes with 10% to 15% smaller pad surface area than a base/4/4s taycan, more than capable of taking responsible driving on a track. However in that particular video, the car was driven with the intention of crashing it and making drama out of it.

Yes, Just like Japan did in the 1980s they usually improve the design they copy but there are initially many items within the design which are copied whole cloth rather then do everything from scratch. In the end they use the existing technology as a big advantage to bring their new product to market. I was kidding about China copying the mistakes as well because they are aware of the weaknesses of the Taycan design and will attempt to address these weaknesses in the product they bring to market.

 

[Gino]

Not sure what you are talking about here.

The batteries used in Taycan are about 6 generations behind the batteries used in the Xiaomi car. In fact the chemistry and design used by LG Poland was already dated even back then, because they would not produce their latest design and chemistry in Europe - and they still don't.

SU7 uses CATL CTP 3.0 "Qilin" batteries; with better max charging speed, static charging curve from 10 to 80%, better modular design with cooling in-between cells avoiding external damage - unlike the taycan, and more. CATL is the industry leader in battery manufacturing and technology by the way.

I will mention that this CTP 3.0 is also already 2 generations behind the latest and greatest batteries capable of 5C charging, is what Chinese call it. Aka constant speed of 500kw up to 80% and ranges of 600km+
These latest and greatest batteries you can see in 2025 Zeekr 001 and 007 EV , capable of "5.5C".

The Chinese are so far ahead in battery technology that they wouldn't really ever need to even have a look across the pond, at Porsche of all companies... Europe & USA are playing catch-up on this. CATL is planning to release first prototypes of solid state batteries in 2027, and in cars in 2030 - Europe is about 10 years away from this at current pace.

The drive train of the taycan is not unreliable, but no, Xiaomi didn't copy that either. Instead they just paid some of the best people in the industry 3-5x what they are paid normally to design a drive train for them, that can go from 1 electric motor all the way to 4 - they have not released any model with 4 motors.

Xiaomi is the leader in terms of software in China. They make EVERYTHING and the software for that everything.

So I wouldn't bet money on the SU7 being as unreliable as the taycan.

I agree. This is the beauty of copying what has been successful in a design and redesigning the flaws in the Taycan design to make it much more reliable at lower cost for the same performance. To say Xiaomi started from scratch to build a Taycan “like” vehicle only copied the looks of the Taycan is not believable.
Xiaomi has the ability to make a car as good as or better than a Taycan which uses outdated technology. Hopefully this sends a message to Porsche they must stay up to date or be trampled by competitors from China, Korea & Japan that do.

 

[f1eng]

Xiaomi has the ability to make a car as good as or better than a Taycan

And better than anything made in the USA too, probably.

 

[Gino]

And better than anything made in the USA too, probably.

Almost certainly. Of course the US likely sources their parts from China in the first place like Tesla does. China can easily produce a high quality vehicle of their own with the same parts manufacturing expertise & supply chain.

 

[Fish Fingers]

To be honest, I think the race may already be lost.....

The Chinese have a lot of Aces up their sleeves with labour costs, raw materials, battery technology, Govt support, rapid development etc.

If products are currently close to par, but one party has huge momentum and the other very little (German car industry is in a very bad place currently), a gap will soon open up that will very quickly become insurmountable.
Think Usain Bolt closing with someone at 50m - just as he hits his stride and they are already gassed.

I can see collaboration (similar to MG or Lotus) where heritage and identity are traded.

 

[Gino]

To be honest, I think the race may already be lost.....

The Chinese have a lot of Aces up their sleeves with labour costs, raw materials, battery technology, Govt support, rapid development etc.

If products are currently close to par, but one party has huge momentum and the other very little (German car industry is in a very bad place currently), a gap will soon open up that will very quickly become insurmountable.
Think Usain Bolt closing with someone at 50m - just as he hits his stride and they are already gassed.

I can see collaboration (similar to MG or Lotus) where heritage and identity are traded.

You may well be correct. German auto makers will have to get creative. German automakers leveraged their mechanical precision at premium prices but Japan showed the world they could make a fast, high performance car to challenge a hand made Ferrari but with much better reliability at a much lower cost.
Porsche is learning this lesson now and better find a way to compete or they will be relegated to the sales of vehicles with hand made interiors to people where price means nothing but they make up such a small number of customers which won’t sustain a premium brand especially once the knockoffs become better performance as well as cheaper.
I remember when Ferrari used to say reliability has its limits when you make hand made vehicles. The Japanese proved you could have both.
Would I buy a Ferrari or Lamborghini today. Not a chance unless I had so much money the banks were telling me to stop making deposits because my accounts were too full.
People who buy these unreliable performance cars either have more money than god or are too stupid to fall for the marketing of these luxury brands so they stretch to purchase vehicles which were once beyond their reach.
If you collect these exotic cars as art pieces you drive now & again then they make sense in an odd way but vehicles designed to be driven should expect reliability. If not, the design is flawed.
In the semiconductor/chip industry hand made products are Stone Age products. Every single step in the manufacturing & assembly process can be done much more reliably and cheaper than being done by hand.
Hand made to many means quality or it used to mean quality & attention to detail. In technology, hand made means you’re unable or unwilling to compete in today’s fully automated production world where yield & reliability are expected.

 

[f1eng]

I remember when Ferrari used to say reliability has its limits when you make hand made vehicles. The Japanese proved you could have both.

I have owned one Ferrari for 28 years and several Toyotas in that period they have all been 100% reliable.
My Taycan has broken down once, at home, with a flat 12V battery, so not too bad so far.

 

[Jasper4S]

I just don’t see it. These cars don’t look the same at all. What am I missing? Very different front, very different head lights, and very different rear. Inside nothing is the same. Only the yellow brakes and rims are a bit Porsche like, but in that case we could compare it with a Panamera too. And we’ve all seen the brakes in action, so it is just the color that is the same.

 

[DCYL725]

The next gen Taycan will be critical for the Porsche EV's, if its not flawless from all aspects then they're f*cked. I mean you can't ask 120k for an EV when there's a better one for half the price, no matter the badge.

But anyway I don't see how the US and German car companies will be able to compete with the Chinese. The status symbols like 911, G-Wagon, Rolls, Ferrari, Lambo, etc will survive but the premium and economy cars have slim chances.

Yes, Just like Japan did in the 1980s they usually improve the design they copy but there are initially many items within the design which are copied whole cloth rather then do everything from scratch. In the end they use the existing technology as a big advantage to bring their new product to market. I was kidding about China copying the mistakes as well because they are aware of the weaknesses of the Taycan design and will attempt to address these weaknesses in the product they bring to market.

Most "stuff" is manufactured in China/East Asia these days anyways. Products are mainly designed in the West and then made here.

All the know how and technicals of manufacturing are in the hands of the Chinese and that has always been the goal of the party. This is most evient in the textile and fashion industry.

Same for cars and as some as noted, exactly what happened in Japan and in a smaller scale, Taiwan.

g7 economies' cost of labor has become so bloated they have priced themselves out of the market.

 

[Gino]

Most "stuff" is manufactured in China/East Asia these days anyways. Products are mainly designed in the West and then made here.

All the know how and technicals of manufacturing are in the hands of the Chinese and that has always been the goal of the party. This is most evient in the textile and fashion industry.

Same for cars and as some as noted, exactly what happened in Japan and in a smaller scale, Taiwan.

g7 economies' cost of labor has become so bloated they have priced themselves out of the market.

I can’t disagree with that. It’s getting harder & harder to innovate to stay ahead of the best manufacturing infrastructure in the Pacific Rim.
I’m working with India now which has the ability to expload onto the global stage in the next decade and even threaten Europe & US on the most technologically difficult products we continue to dominate, for now.
I’m very curious how the west will deal with the rest of the world catching up with them. I anticipate a fiercely competitive environment where the margins Porsche and others can maintain today will be slashed to compete with products of equal quality & performance. The answer surely won’t be tariffs. The good thing is that I’ll be very old or dead by then…

 

[whitex]

Now I want to be Chinese

The way things have been going lately, there is a good chance in the next 50 years or so China will become the next "land of opportunity" (think USA after WW2), with the "Chinese Dream" replacing the "American Dream", where you're be expected to work your ass off but be able to reap the benefits on this work. USA might become the next France, giving up it's superpower/policeman of the world status to China.

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