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Porsche unable to engineer a reliable heater?

DerekS

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code probably written by latest generation of programmers pulling in 50 dependencies from open source to write a "Hello World!" code).
I've been coding since the 90s. I have seen libraries pulled in for the most trivial and stupid of things.
It's lazy and reckless.
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whitex

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I've been coding since the 90s. I have seen libraries pulled in for the most trivial and stupid of things.
It's lazy and reckless.
I’ve seen on more than one occasions and entire operating system pulled in for something which could have been done in few hundred lines of bare metal code. This of course meant significantly more capable hardware required (e.g. $50 SoC instead of $1 microcontroller).
 
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whitex

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Thanks for the advice. I haven't ran your tool yet (real busy, all car projects on hold since the summer), but I have been meaning to check it out. That said, I did a quick scan with PIWIS3 and here are the errors that I thought were relevant:

1761812040892-ep.webp

1761812052437-wz.webp

Maybe you can help interpret. Given the history of HV heater, I presumed my heater died based on the first error, though the last one is more consistent with your theory. What do you think?
@prj? Did you also have the HV heater 2 control module fault?
 

JonMTB

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My 73 reg (MY24) Taycan is booked in with Sutton Coldfield OPC for a heater repair, had to wait until next week for a courtesy car. Hopefully it will be a quick fix. First issue since I bought it second hand in Febuary.
 


CJW

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So if there's been a bunch of recalls, should I assume my 2020 has had it replaced? There are no open recalls on my car.
 

chun

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So if there's been a bunch of recalls, should I assume my 2020 has had it replaced? There are no open recalls on my car.
It can still break if it was replaced, as proven by people that had it replaced 4-6 times.
It's just a badly designed part

So assuming it was changed already won't do much.
 
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Scandinavian

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I had my passenger cabin heater replaced under a recall in 2024. I presumed, incorrectly, that Porsche has in fact figured out the problem. Then I got into my Taycan today, no heat, System Error showing on the preheat tab of the PCM - the new, reengineered Porsche heater dead already, and it this is in a mild pacific northwest climate (temperature was 44F outside, but I think it failed in the garage which was warmer, as the car was not pre-heated when I got into it despite me starting the preheat in the app). I also see there is a thread in the UK regional section about people there having a new wave of failed heaters.

I am honestly baffled, 6 years into Taycan production, how is it possible that Porsche is unable to engineer something as simple as an electric heater? I'm not saying it's trivial, but resistive electric heaters are not some new exotic technology - it's a freaking piece of wire through which current is passed through! If Porsche cannot engineer a reliable resistive heater in 6 years, what chances do they have staying competitive with a lot more complex emerging technologies in the 21st century and beyond?
Have a look at the video below by TeslaBjörn about an interview with the Firefly responsible guy. The discuss why Firefly does not have a heatpump at about 19, 20 minutes into the video.

There is a very interesting comment referred to an independendent EV repairer in Norway.

Roughly summarised:
”” PTC is superrobust, almost never breaks, way more reliable than heat pumps…. Etc”””

It is unbelievable that Porsche can not sort out their PTC heter when you her this!

 


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whitex

whitex

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Have a look at the video below by TeslaBjörn about an interview with the Firefly responsible guy. The discuss why Firefly does not have a heatpump at about 19, 20 minutes into the video.

There is a very interesting comment referred to an independendent EV repairer in Norway.

Roughly summarised:
”” PTC is superrobust, almost never breaks, way more reliable than heat pumps…. Etc”””

It is unbelievable that Porsche can not sort out their PTC heter when you her this!

A resistive heater is old, proven technology. It's essentially a resistive material, like a wire, through which you put current through to heat it up. It doesn't get any simpler than that. Of course there is complexity is making it reliable, handle expansion/contraction cycles, etc. but since humans have been making electric resistive heaters since Edison, it's been figured out.
 

chun

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Have a look at the video below by TeslaBjörn about an interview with the Firefly responsible guy. The discuss why Firefly does not have a heatpump at about 19, 20 minutes into the video.

There is a very interesting comment referred to an independendent EV repairer in Norway.

Roughly summarised:
”” PTC is superrobust, almost never breaks, way more reliable than heat pumps…. Etc”””

It is unbelievable that Porsche can not sort out their PTC heter when you her this!

Imagine if Porsche would have addressed any of their issues, or customer concerns like this, in a open transparent matter...

But yea, we pay premium for the most un-premium service :D
 

Jonathan S.

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I received this email almost two months ago.
I haven’t acted on it yet since I hit a deer a little over a week later, so that repair has been top priority.
Heater is still working fine.

I’ll call the dealer next week.
(Same dealer not getting back to the collision shop about the replacement part for the damage front camera wire.)

But curious if anyone else has received this email?
Does the dealer automatically agree to replace the heater?
Mine was replace preemptively in fall 2023, and it was done while I waited. I’m hoping that relatively painless process can happen again!


Porsche Taycan Porsche unable to engineer a reliable heater? IMG_1643
 
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whitex

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I received this email almost two months ago.
I haven’t acted on it yet since I hit a deer a little over a week later, so that repair has been top priority.
Heater is still working fine.

I’ll call the dealer next week.
(Same dealer not getting back to the collision shop about the replacement part for the damage front camera wire.)

But curious if anyone else has received this email?
Does the dealer automatically agree to replace the heater?
Mine was replace preemptively in fall 2023, and it was done while I waited. I’m hoping that relatively painless process can happen again!


IMG_1643.webp
Interesting. I never got such a warning despite enabling all telemetry to Porsche. My car only blows cold air right now (happily switching and controlling cold air flow between vents), and yet when reported to the dealer, Porsche's response was that I already had the heater proactively replaced under a recall before, so they will require a complete diagnostic in Germany before they would approve another heater. They say they don't think it is the heater (since I have the "fixed" on), which tells me that Porsche as aware of another common failure mode of Taycan cabin heating - perhaps the heater is not the only poorly designed part of the cabin heating system. :(
 
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whitex

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^ Ugh, that is horribly messed up, best wishes for a successful resolution eventually!
Yea, while I was a little bummed by the number of recalls, I am more bummed that a car breaks down so quickly (my car is not even 3 years old, with less than 20K miles one it), and that Porsche service network is not built out sufficiently to resolve those breakages quickly. If you want to build cars which break a lot, at the very least you should build out the service network to repair them quickly (remote diagnosis. pre-order parts, have sufficient number of techs, do quick one day turnaround visits, provide loaners for any breakages which make the car undriveable). In my mind I keep coming back to the same question, did Porsche design philosophy drift over time to build engineering cars that can beat track records (so they just need to last long enough to beat the record), and production cars as collectible status symbols, spending most of their life in a garage (so little chance to break down, and even if, owner may not notice, as it still looks good in their garage)? My first Porsche was a 2001 911C4, I pushed that car way harder than I do my 2023 Taycan, and it required nothing but new tires every 6 months and scheduled service every 2 years IIRC.
 
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RichJ

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I received this email almost two months ago.
I haven’t acted on it yet since I hit a deer a little over a week later, so that repair has been top priority.
Heater is still working fine.

I’ll call the dealer next week.
(Same dealer not getting back to the collision shop about the replacement part for the damage front camera wire.)

But curious if anyone else has received this email?
Does the dealer automatically agree to replace the heater?
Mine was replace preemptively in fall 2023, and it was done while I waited. I’m hoping that relatively painless process can happen again!


IMG_1643.webp
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