[opinion] - hmmm…VW/Audi/Porsche _IS_ in trouble… [⚠️ ADMIN WARNING: NO INSULTING / POLITICALLY CHARGED POSTING]

[Tooney]

Analysis: how can Michael Leiters save Porsche?

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[daveo4EV]

Analysis: how can Michael Leiters save Porsche?

other than a summary of the new CEO"s history - I found this article mostly content free…and a level of internet-ad annoying that was stunning…

nobody knows anythning and won't for a while - "the plan" to "save" Porsche will take some time to execute, and I still see a core problem:

their prices are too high for the brand and the the product(s)…but the company is bleeding cash and needs more profits.

 

[chun]

their prices are too high for […] the product(s)…but the company is bleeding cash and needs more profits.

Meanwhile this is the marketing they are getting from owners

So he can start saving the company by making the owners trust the company and their cars again.

Porsche is plainly refusing to stand behind their failing product

 

[daveo4EV]

given Porsche's recent facination with pricing themselves out of competition and their general lack of enthusiasm for things EV…this could be a replacment for my Cayenne Hybrid in 2026/2027…and I hate the Lucid Air - but bring me Lucid Saphire driving dynamic's with SUV class space (120 cubic/feet - more passenger room than a Chevy Suburban) - $132k fully optioned - 450 miles range - 350 kW charging…

yeah Porsche has got problems, and driving dynamics - well most likely the gap has been closed…



if they continue down this path - they may end up where they started - with only 911's as an offering…

A Cayenne EV at more than $150k (probably a lot more based on what I'm seeing with Taycan pricing) from a company that seems to wish for the past rather than embrace the future…hmmm…

going to be interesting the next 5+ years…

this thread is more than a year old now - and I've learned some things…

so a small update:

• I've decided no way no how - Lucid is ruled out as a potential vendor to replace my 2021 Cayenne TurboS eHybrid - just too many "problems" with them - and I'm simply not going to nurse maid another EV company starting from scratch
• The cayenne EV is a compelling product that is overpriced by a large factor
• My Macan EV is pretty good, but I'd like it to be a bit "more" - it lacks that Porsche "extra" but it's a good overpriced choice
• the market in late 2026 is getting more intesting - BMW iX3, Volvo XE60, others seem to be compelling EV's at 1/2 the Porsche prices
• Porsche still seems to lack EV commitment as does the rest of the industry - my view is "the good guys are losing" - I hope this is 2nd act drama so that the good guys can win in the 3rd act, but the 2nd act going on world wide right now depresses me greatly…
  • this is true in the automotive world and also true on many many non-automotive fronts - OMG the world sucks right now…so hard!
• Porsche's problems still seem quite large and systemic
• 911 pricing is out of control
• Taycan remains the best sports sedan on the market that is wildly overpriced
• My 2021 Cayenne is in for battery service with many of the high voltage battery cells offering faults - car will be repaired - parts availabilty is non-deterministic - I have a loaner Macan 4 EV that is sufficient
• Nothing I'm considering seems to be an "upgrade" over my now 5+ year old Cayenne TurboS eHybrid - but it's currently broken with no ETA as to being returned to me
• I have quotes for an extended warranty making the Cayenne consequence free until 2032 and 150,000 miles (it currently has 43k miles) - the cost of this extended warranty would be less than sales tax on virtually anything new I'd consider purchasing…
  • hmmmmmmm…

my opinion remains "Porsche is in Trouble, VW is in trouble" and much of their problems are self inflicted, and in the past year I've not seen any progess or anything that indicates things are even slightly better - if I had to score it I'd suggest it's actually getting worse…

Porsche has no mojo in the EV world, and their ICE world is also in trouble…we'll of course see how this plays out.

 

[Tooney]

@daveo4EV Details on the extended warranty: how long, does it cover the battery, etc.

 

[Tooney]

Meanwhile this is the marketing they are getting from owners

So he can start saving the company by making the owners trust the company and their cars again.

Porsche is plainly refusing to stand behind their failing product

Link to the website https://broken-taycan.co.uk/

 

[logic]

(..) "Porsche is in Trouble, VW is in trouble" and much of their problems are self inflicted, and in the past year I've not seen any progess or anything that indicates things are even slightly better - if I had to score it I'd suggest it's actually getting worse… (..)

I don't want to take anything away from what you said, on the contrary, except for that last comment, because meanwhile the headlines seem to be in VW's favour: “VW Sells More EVs in Europe Than Tesla and BYD”. The ID.7 Tourer is even selling better than VW expected.

 

[chun]

I don't want to take anything away from what you said, on the contrary, except for that last comment, because meanwhile the headlines seem to be in VW's favour: “VW Sells More EVs in Europe Than Tesla and BYD”. The ID.7 Tourer is even selling better than VW expected.

They sell more “right now”. The troubles are not right now, but the troubles are coming.

BYD barely entered Europe.
There’s at least 7 other brands coming by 2027. Xiaomi, zeeker, xpeng, nio, Li auto, leap motors, seres, lynk, geely, chery, Saic.

The auto market in Europe is about to become mega competitive, just like in China. And VW couldn’t and still can’t compete in China. Will they be able to compete in Europe when the competition is actually here?

Even with 30% taxes, a geely offers better tech, more luxury, at a smaller price than a VW id4. Just because they haven’t started selling yet, it doesn’t mean they never will.

It takes time to open sell points, services and check mark all the regulations. But come 2027, all of that will be done. Will VW be able to compete in 2027, with the trajectory they are on?

 

[logic]

They sell more “right now”. The troubles are not right now, but the troubles are coming.

BYD barely entered Europe.
There’s at least 7 other brands coming by 2027. Xiaomi, zeeker, xpeng, nio, Li auto, leap motors, seres, lynk, geely, chery, Saic.

The auto market in Europe is about to become mega competitive, just like in China. And VW couldn’t and still can’t compete in China. Will they be able to compete in Europe when the competition is actually here?

Well, I've changed my mind a bit after seeing the sales figures. It’s surprising to me as well. I think VW can hold its own, at least in Europe, for a while yet. How can a traditional car manufacturer like VW (which we consider to be lagging behind and which many Tesla fans thought was doomed to failure) sell more cars than the electric car pioneer and former number one in the EU? To draw the right conclusions, we definitely need a broader perspective than just looking at the products itself. At least you can say that it's certainly not all doom and gloom.

Brands like Nio, Xpeng, Xiaomi will appeal to enthusiasts, but not immediately to the general public; that will take years. Most of the brands you mentioned are already present in Belgium (and The Netherlands, and Norway, and so on), and that tells me that things won't move as quickly as you might think.

There is time to adapt. What exists today won't be the VW of tomorrow. Governments can change their policy, nothing is written in stone nowadays... So don't jump to conclusions too quickly. They may have the EU covered still, but they have certainly lost China, that’s a fact.

 

[69Mach390]

Well, I've changed my mind a bit after seeing the sales figures. It’s surprising to me as well. I think VW can hold its own, at least in Europe, for a while yet. How can a traditional car manufacturer like VW (which we consider to be lagging behind and which many Tesla fans thought was doomed to failure) sell more cars than the electric car pioneer and former number one in the EU? To draw the right conclusions, we definitely need a broader perspective than just looking at the products itself. At least you can say that it's certainly not all doom and gloom.

Brands like Nio, Xpeng, Xiaomi will appeal to enthusiasts, but not immediately to the general public; that will take years. Most of the brands you mentioned are already present in Belgium (and The Netherlands, and Norway, and so on), and that tells me that things won't move as quickly as you might think.

There is time to adapt. What exists today won't be the VW of tomorrow. Governments can change their policy, nothing is written in stone nowadays... So don't jump to conclusions too quickly. They may have the EU covered still, but they have certainly lost China, that’s a fact.

Awesome cars and high sales numbers rarely go hand in hand.

In fact usually the higher the performance, the more rare it is to see it on the road.

Cheap, simple and plain cars appeal to the masses. As long as reliability and the ability to service goes along with those things, that’s where Chinese autos can make a big impact.

Some cars that look great on paper (price and features) also lack some driving dynamics and/or reliability. If you can somehow nail all the categories, they have a winner.

 

[Fun TC Driving]

i respect those who wish to find a good car at a good price, just as I do those who are willing to pay a ton more for a vehicle that is precision engineered, is a joy to drive. Cars have always been a passion for me, so I pay more, e.g., so that I smile while driving.

 

[chun]

i respect those who wish to find a good car at a good price, just as I do those who are willing to pay a ton more for a vehicle that is precision engineered, is a joy to drive. Cars have always been a passion for me, so I pay more, e.g., so that I smile while driving.

I think the guy beating Tayan GT record at Nurburing in a car 1/3 the price was smiling also though

I am of course only teasing you in regards to "paying more for better engineering" but yes, of course, there will always be people that stick with a brand through everything, but don't think those are a majority.

 

[Fun TC Driving]

That is going to be Porsche’s crossroad, e.g. how many stick or how many bail as their pricing vs rewards diverges.

 

[chun]

Meanwhile this is the marketing they are getting from owners

So he can start saving the company by making the owners trust the company and their cars again.

Porsche is plainly refusing to stand behind their failing product

Here's the video



Quite common story with the taycan. How many people in the same situation like him will ever go back to porsche?

 

[SoccerMan94043]

This is likely good news for Porsche. Wonder what the over / under is on the new roadster.

https://www.cnbc.com/2026/01/28/tesla-ending-model-s-x-production.html

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