[opinion] - hmmm…VW/Audi/Porsche _IS_ in trouble…

[chun]

The western auto market; especially the Germans, can’t comprehend that they need to offer good value in their EVs, and good software.

Zeeker just entered the Swiss market, and all my friends that were interested in making the switch to EV are hyping up Zeeker after test drives. Cheap, luxurious interior, great software, 12min charging to 80% at 450kw, lots of power, drives great. All for 55k

There is no other car on the Swiss market offering what Zeeker offers now. Not at 55k or at 300k.
Germans can’t compete on price, ok… but they aren’t competing at all, since they don’t have a product capable of offering the tech Chinese cars do.

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[Zcd1]

Meanwhile back at the ranch, everything is peachy...

"potential framework for joint ventures between Chinese and American automakers, should the former seek entry into the US market"

Farley Spent Years Warning About China, Now He’s Talking With Trump About Letting Them In

Ford held talks with China's Xiaomi over EV partnership, FT reports

Ford CEO pitched Chinese joint ventures to Trump administration officials

Farley clearly sees the Chinese auto industry as an existential threat for Ford, and is trying to stake out a path forward. He seems to be the only legacy mfr. CEO that is publically acknowledging the threat....though I'm sure all the rest of them acknowledge that threat in private...

 

[Tooney]

Porsche Is So Desperate For Biofuel It's Turning To Antacid Tablets For Help
The closed-loop system – carbon dioxide to calcium carbonate to carbon dioxide – would theoretically allow Porsche to produce a nearly infinite supply of renewable gasoline. Since cars that run on biofuels emit carbon dioxide just like their fossil-fuel brethren, the automaker would always have enough to capture.
. . .
We hope the process advances soon; currently, Porsche's Chilean biofuel facility produces the stuff at a cost of around $40 a gallon, although in the past, the automaker has estimated that with further tinkering, that could come down to $7 or $8.

 

[chun]

Porsche Is So Desperate For Biofuel It's Turning To Antacid Tablets For Help
The closed-loop system – carbon dioxide to calcium carbonate to carbon dioxide – would theoretically allow Porsche to produce a nearly infinite supply of renewable gasoline. Since cars that run on biofuels emit carbon dioxide just like their fossil-fuel brethren, the automaker would always have enough to capture.
. . .
We hope the process advances soon; currently, Porsche's Chilean biofuel facility produces the stuff at a cost of around $40 a gallon, although in the past, the automaker has estimated that with further tinkering, that could come down to $7 or $8.

Distribution is the biggest cost factor for any source of energy, be it petrol or energy or hydrogen.

Quite convenient of/for them to not even consider the distribution cost of this biofuel currently produced at 40$ a gallon, fantasized at about 5th of that - and I say fantasy, because I’ve yet to see anything turn a 500% yield increase with “a bit of tinkering”

It makes sense maybe for the few owners of carrera GTs; and that’s assuming it can even be used on older cars without any changes.

For the mass market, it’s a hopeless fantasy and a waste of money, money they could be investing in more real concepts - like EVs with functioning software and real OTA capabilities.

 

[daveo4EV]

Distribution is the biggest cost factor for any source of energy, be it petrol or energy or hydrogen.

Quite convenient of/for them to not even consider the distribution cost of this biofuel currently produced at 40$ a gallon, fantasized at about 5th of that - and I say fantasy, because I’ve yet to see anything turn a 500% yield increase with “a bit of tinkering”

It makes sense maybe for the few owners of carrera GTs; and that’s assuming it can even be used on older cars without any changes.

For the mass market, it’s a hopeless fantasy and a waste of money, money they could be investing in more real concepts - like EVs with functioning software and real OTA capabilities.

I'll just leave this here…

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...-bold-vision-for-fast-charging-future….17692/

 

[daveo4EV]

Distribution is the biggest cost factor for any source of energy, be it petrol or energy or hydrogen.

Quite convenient of/for them to not even consider the distribution cost of this biofuel currently produced at 40$ a gallon, fantasized at about 5th of that - and I say fantasy, because I’ve yet to see anything turn a 500% yield increase with “a bit of tinkering”

It makes sense maybe for the few owners of carrera GTs; and that’s assuming it can even be used on older cars without any changes.

For the mass market, it’s a hopeless fantasy and a waste of money, money they could be investing in more real concepts - like EVs with functioning software and real OTA capabilities.

Porsche needs eFuel's because it's the only way they get to keep making mechanically complex machines that leverage their core competencies and provide a sufficient technical "moat" that they lack competition and can maintain pricing independence … the democratizing of performance that go along with EV's is simply overtly hostile to Porsche's business and pricing models based on what they are charging for…

I remain (and always have been) dubious about eFuel's providing _ANY_ advantage in terms of climate impact, health benefits, costs, or even performance - at best they are a bandaid solution for a technology approach that is steeped in history and legacy but not a path forward in terms of real progress - they do however provide a counter-brief for board members and investors from company exec's that lack the mojo to pivot the business to be competitive in the new realities of digital electric transportation…

Prosche's approach to eFuels is almost like if AT&T and other telco's had doubled down on faster carrier pigeons as a solution to counter VoIP services, or Blockbuster thinking a fast VHS type rewinder devices is the proper path forward to counter the rise of streaming…

they are simply desparate to find out to stay in the same business they've always been in rather than figure out how to be successful in the new world…

 

[tigerbalm]

Was about to read a recent article in the FT: https://www.ft.com/content/b081a885-8187-4e5e-a8cc-9f8db716a694

But what immediately caught my eye was the state of the GM assembly line pictured. All the dirt, grease and uneven floor surfaces.

Compared to the Taycan and 911 assembly lines at Porsche, this is unbelievable. You genuinely could eat off the floor at Porsche. And I don't think you can just say its age of the factory. The 911 facility is in an ancient building (compared to the shiny new Taycan assembly building) and they still manage to keep it spotlessly clean.

I have no idea if such a factory impacts the quality of the cars it outputs, but for sure it has to impact the quality of life of the employee's that work there.

 

[Tooney]

Porsche 'K1' luxury SUV to be Audi Q9 twin with V6 and V8 power

Porsche's New Flagship SUV Won't Be Electric, Will Have A V8

 

[SoccerMan94043]

This may be a paywall for you but it's easy to break (I use Brave with an anti paywall filter): https://www.nytimes.com/2026/03/03/...e_code=1.QVA.PHTV.4hqMBRWSMs9A&smid=url-share

Add Porsche to that list unless they break out from the penny wise, pound foolish track they are on.

Porsche is competing well in EVs and just needs to step up their software game to compete in the future. Or they can be an afterthought in 10 years by focusing on ICE.

 

[Sar]

This may be a paywall for you but it's easy to break (I use Brave with an anti paywall filter): https://www.nytimes.com/2026/03/03/...e_code=1.QVA.PHTV.4hqMBRWSMs9A&smid=url-share

Add Porsche to that list unless they break out from the penny wise, pound foolish track they are on.

Porsche is competing well in EVs and just needs to step up their software game to compete in the future. Or they can be an afterthought in 10 years by focusing on ICE.

General note to folks - if you use Firefox, you can also just press the "reader mode" icon at the right of the address bar to bypass the paywall. Unsure of other browsers.

It feels bad living in a country that, if we keep going along this route, will isolate itself more and more over the coming years by holding onto gas cars while the rest of the world passes us by.

And hopefully Porsche continues to focus on EV. Did the public ever hear about that "closed door meeting" that took place a few weeks ago to discuss the fate of the EV 718?

 

[SoccerMan94043]

General note to folks - if you use Firefox, you can also just press the "reader mode" icon at the right of the address bar to bypass the paywall. Unsure of other browsers.

It feels bad living in a country that, if we keep going along this route, will isolate itself more and more over the coming years by holding onto gas cars while the rest of the world passes us by.

And hopefully Porsche continues to focus on EV. Did the public ever hear about that "closed door meeting" that took place a few weeks ago to discuss the fate of the EV 718?

I didn't know about Firefox reader mode for this... cool trick!

 

[Fish Fingers]

Was about to read a recent article in the FT: https://www.ft.com/content/b081a885-8187-4e5e-a8cc-9f8db716a694

But what immediately caught my eye was the state of the GM assembly line pictured. All the dirt, grease and uneven floor surfaces.

Compared to the Taycan and 911 assembly lines at Porsche, this is unbelievable. You genuinely could eat off the floor at Porsche. And I don't think you can just say its age of the factory. The 911 facility is in an ancient building (compared to the shiny new Taycan assembly building) and they still manage to keep it spotlessly clean.

I have no idea if such a factory impacts the quality of the cars it outputs, but for sure it has to impact the quality of life of the employee's that work there.

Auto manufacturing plants are not my field, but I just look at that picture and immediately think there must be a total lack of top down management at that plant.

It doesn't even look safe!

And I am assuming that's not the official workwear she's got on?

Surely, build quality from that plant would be compromised?

 

[Tooney]

The 10 Most Expensive Porsche 911 Options in the U.S.

 

[D00notD00d]

More leap of faith stuff promising to morph into Ferrari ….
Against a background of tariffs, inflation and rising energy costs, single digit percentage profit forecasts can easily disappear - Ferrari’s last operating profit was 29.5%.
Full article attached (nothing new).

 

[Fish Fingers]

Thinking more people looking to change cars might now start looking at EVs with all the recent oil price volatility and uncertainty.
I know I would be, if I didn't have one already.

Life is certainly less stressful being an EV owner at present.

If it does pan out that way, where will that leave Porsche??
.....wishing they had stuck with the original plan of going all EV except the 911!


Pivot again..... and back to square one!

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