Denza Z9GT has come to Europe with 1,500kW charging - articles

[69Mach390]

What good does it do if there is nowhere that can charge that fast?

Reminds me of some of the TV technology over the years:

HD TVs came out YEARS before regular HD content. Same with 4K, 8K TVs, 3D TVs (those all died off) etc.

Even if they have some chargers, I bet it’ll be expensive, inefficient, create tons of excess heat and hurt the longevity of the battery.

We shall see though.

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[Murph7355]

I dove a bit into all the technical info, pricing, specs and pictures around the Denza.
We will see, what emerges from it.
I don't like the overall design at all, as it's leaning towards a shooting-brake but lacking ANY of the elegance a Taycan has.
Just straight panels, hood an a bulky appearance.
The only standalone element could be the roof.
The lights are even more ugly as BMW Neue Klasse.
Until proven otherwise, I doubt the "ride" will get close to a Taycan, but that's speculation.
Also quite curious, how the support will be and how insurance will treat this new entry.
Definitely no Denza for me and yes: I am happily willing to pay a premium for heritage, design and market integration.

Aesthetics are very subjective. I don't think it looks that bad from what I've seen thus far. And the key thing is, the Chinese are learning very quickly.

The support network is a good point, with Chinese brands changing like the wind. But....

Porsche are very far from covering themselves in glory on this. They charge an absolute fortune for service time, warranties etc... And then leave us hanging for months on end for fixes to problems they should never have released on us.

Sure, we know where the shiny showroom/service dept is and they offer you a drink. But what good is that if the car stays broken for a significant period.

What good does it do if there is nowhere that can charge that fast?

Reminds me of some of the TV technology over the years:

HD TVs came out YEARS before regular HD content. Same with 4K, 8K TVs, 3D TVs (those all died off) etc.

Even if they have some chargers, I bet it’ll be expensive, inefficient, create tons of excess heat and hurt the longevity of the battery.

We shall see though.

Chicken and egg.

The same must have been the case for the first petrol driven cars.

tbh current charge speeds work for me, for the few times I need them. But I guess in bigger countries it's more of a headache.

As I get older, taking a 20min break every 3-4hrs of seat time is actually beneficial.

 

[BjörnfromHamburg]

Aesthetics are very subjective. I don't think it looks that bad from what I've seen thus far. And the key thing is, the Chinese are learning very quickly.

The support network is a good point, with Chinese brands changing like the wind. But....

Porsche are very far from covering themselves in glory on this. They charge an absolute fortune for service time, warranties etc... And then leave us hanging for months on end for fixes to problems they should never have released on us.

Sure, we know where the shiny showroom/service dept is and they offer you a drink. But what good is that if the car stays broken for a significant period.

All true. It depends on personal experience a lot.
My service-center is near to perfection and approved takes away any headache about potential repair-costs.
Maintenance is unnecessary and costly, but in a price-range I'm willing to swallow.

 

[Crazymind]

So much fear around Chinese Ev!
So far what I can see they have better batteries, cheaper costs and a lot more experience in EVs.
Europe and America will catch up and we will level the distance.
Playing in Europe with a decent Chinese product is what will push Car makers to game up. This is what us consumers need.

 

[Murph7355]

All true. It depends on personal experience a lot.
My service-center is near to perfection and approved takes away any headache about potential repair-costs.
Maintenance is unnecessary and costly, but in a price-range I'm willing to swallow.

Mine was pretty much at perfection until this year.

- no longer able to provide loan cars for service work (apparently)
- knackered the PPF on part of the car (despite specific requests on the care needed)
- didn't combine MOT and service work at the same time (extra trip required...with no loan car)
- when fixing the PPF and covering the MOT, ignored requests that if there was any doubt the car would be ready, to call me...resulted in my OH having to take a Saturday morning out to go and pick the car up

Things change. And on this anecdotal evidence, not for the better!

 

[69Mach390]

Aesthetics are very subjective. I don't think it looks that bad from what I've seen thus far. And the key thing is, the Chinese are learning very quickly.

The support network is a good point, with Chinese brands changing like the wind. But....

Porsche are very far from covering themselves in glory on this. They charge an absolute fortune for service time, warranties etc... And then leave us hanging for months on end for fixes to problems they should never have released on us.

Sure, we know where the shiny showroom/service dept is and they offer you a drink. But what good is that if the car stays broken for a significant period.


Chicken and egg.

The same must have been the case for the first petrol driven cars.

tbh current charge speeds work for me, for the few times I need them. But I guess in bigger countries it's more of a headache.

As I get older, taking a 20min break every 3-4hrs of seat time is actually beneficial.

This isn’t like buying the first gas car.

There are places to charge, just nowhere to charge that fast.

It may be like (choose your format war, vhs. Vs Betamax, Blu-ray vs Hd dvd etc).

It will depend on whether or not the charging companies invest in that speed that only 1 model on the road could use.

I bet not, at least not for many years and maybe never unless other car manufacturers follow suit.

There’s already no money in charging stations, raising the cost won’t help.

 

[Murph7355]

Fortunately it appears to come with a CCS2 adapter too. So it's not as if the car cannot be charged.

I'm not convinced the networks aren't making money, in the UK at least. Rates are pushing 20x domestic electricity tariffs. The networks appear to be clinging on to petrol/diesel charging scales.

But you're right in that they won't be installing bespoke connectors for a single car brand. We'll see how it pans out.

 

[69Mach390]

Fortunately it appears to come with a CCS2 adapter too. So it's not as if the car cannot be charged.

I'm not convinced the networks aren't making money, in the UK at least. Rates are pushing 20x domestic electricity tariffs. The networks appear to be clinging on to petrol/diesel charging scales.

But you're right in that they won't be installing bespoke connectors for a single car brand. We'll see how it pans out.

They’re close to 20x here too.

But the only way the charging manufacturers make money is from government grants and car manufacturers contracts.

The installation costs alone are obscene and because each station can only service maybe 2 cars per hour, the math isn’t great. Reality is they service much less than that. https://www.mckinsey.com/features/m...g-stations-be-profitable-in-the-united-states

Even gas stations don’t really make profits selling gas, it’s from the convenience stores and service centers attached to them.

 

[Gkwan]

Great! Fanstatic car, amazing but I’ll stick with my Taycan thanks.

same, thanks but no thanks, ugly design !!!

 

[Gkwan]

They’re close to 20x here too.

But the only way the charging manufacturers make money is from government grants and car manufacturers contracts.

The installation costs alone are obscene and because each station can only service maybe 2 cars per hour, the math isn’t great. Reality is they service much less than that. https://www.mckinsey.com/features/m...g-stations-be-profitable-in-the-united-states

Even gas stations don’t really make profits selling gas, it’s from the convenience stores and service centers attached to them.

only x3 to x4 here in France, lucky us !

 

[Tooney]

BYD’s first flash-charging model, Denza Z9 GT, surpasses 10,000 deliveries in 2.5 months

Why BYD Is Selling a $40K EV for $134K in Europe

• BYD’s Denza Z9 GT launched in Europe, priced over three times its China cost.
• Tariffs and costs don't fully explain the huge European price; pricing strategy targets luxury buyers.
• BYD aims to compete with premium brands, funding infrastructure and marketing through high margins.

 

[69Mach390]

BYD’s first flash-charging model, Denza Z9 GT, surpasses 10,000 deliveries in 2.5 months

Why BYD Is Selling a $40K EV for $134K in Europe

• BYD’s Denza Z9 GT launched in Europe, priced over three times its China cost.
• Tariffs and costs don't fully explain the huge European price; pricing strategy targets luxury buyers.
• BYD aims to compete with premium brands, funding infrastructure and marketing through high margins.

I’ve been saying this all along: if you don’t live in China, you can’t buy Chinese EVs at those ridiculously low prices.

All the articles trying to compare $40k EVs in China to EU or USA vehicles are just meaningless clickbait.

For $40k? Of course we are all interested. For $134k? Buy a Taycan.

Per capita income is around $13,000 in China. I’m not moving there for cheap cars.

 

[Crazymind]

After a while I understand why the Denza is coming to Europe, I am such a genius .
Yesterday the 1100hp Denza price has been released for uk, 105k pounds.
Taycan will not see replacement… with the taycan gone the Denza GT will be the only available super Ev… and that’s the answer… China is slowly taking over the gaps left by the iconic brands…
Will I buy a Denza GT? Not sure I want to throw anymore 100k to buy any EV but…

 

[Tooney]

Porsche Shouldn't Ignore China's 1,140-HP Denza Z9GT, and Neither Should You - MotorTrend
The Real Competitive Threat
The Denza Z9GT has just gone on sale in Germany and the U.K., France, Spain, and Italy. No, it's not a Porsche Taycan beater. But for the equivalent of about $132,000—less than half the price a Taycan GT (and that's fully loaded, no options are available) and two-thirds the price of a base 871-hp Taycan Turbo, it's a lot of car for the money.

BYD says the Z9GT and Z9GT DM will be available in 30 European markets by the end of this year, when the range will be expanded to include a rear-drive, twin-motor version of the electric-powered model that's expected to have a range of 500 miles. Z9GT customers will get a premium ownership experience, with dealer interactions like servicing organized through the brand's bespoke app, minor updates and maintenance conducted on location at homes or workplaces, and even a complimentary valet service. More important, though, in a move that mirrors Tesla's original market launch in the U.S., the Z9GT will come with a year's free Flash Charging as standard. And anyone who orders a Z9GT before the end of September will receive an additional six months on top of that.

No wonder Audi, BMW, Mercedes and, yes, Porsche, will be watching the rollout of the Denza Z9GT very closely. This car shows the Chinese are no longer just an academic threat to Europe's elite, automakers that will tiptoe into their home markets with cheap and cheerful mainstream cars like the Japanese and Koreans once did. No, they're coming at China Speed, and their ambition is boundless.

 

[69Mach390]

Porsche Shouldn't Ignore China's 1,140-HP Denza Z9GT, and Neither Should You - MotorTrend
The Real Competitive Threat
The Denza Z9GT has just gone on sale in Germany and the U.K., France, Spain, and Italy. No, it's not a Porsche Taycan beater. But for the equivalent of about $132,000—less than half the price a Taycan GT (and that's fully loaded, no options are available) and two-thirds the price of a base 871-hp Taycan Turbo, it's a lot of car for the money.

BYD says the Z9GT and Z9GT DM will be available in 30 European markets by the end of this year, when the range will be expanded to include a rear-drive, twin-motor version of the electric-powered model that's expected to have a range of 500 miles. Z9GT customers will get a premium ownership experience, with dealer interactions like servicing organized through the brand's bespoke app, minor updates and maintenance conducted on location at homes or workplaces, and even a complimentary valet service. More important, though, in a move that mirrors Tesla's original market launch in the U.S., the Z9GT will come with a year's free Flash Charging as standard. And anyone who orders a Z9GT before the end of September will receive an additional six months on top of that.

No wonder Audi, BMW, Mercedes and, yes, Porsche, will be watching the rollout of the Denza Z9GT very closely. This car shows the Chinese are no longer just an academic threat to Europe's elite, automakers that will tiptoe into their home markets with cheap and cheerful mainstream cars like the Japanese and Koreans once did. No, they're coming at China Speed, and their ambition is boundless.

Should they pay attention? Yes.

But this car has quite a few things stacked against it as well.

1. It’s a Chinese look-alike/rip off at a premium price. Yes it’s cheaper than a Porsche, but more expensive than a lot of cars. Do people buy fake Rolex? Sure but not at 75% of the price of a real one.

2. China. Doesn’t have a good reputation when it comes to quality. Getting better? Absolutely. But it’s still the land of cheap junk and earned that reputation honestly.

3. TBD on reliability, durability and quality. Just unknown this point.

We shall see. But it will take more than just absurd horsepower to equal sales. In fact that 1000+ horsepower may be the thing that will hurt sales. The Tesla Plaid models sold significantly less than the cheaper ones with less power. This is a halo car for sure.

A much lower price point and a different unique design would go a long way. Even with less horsepower. Too bad Europe can’t get them for the prices people pay in China.

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