4S to Turbo - is it worth it?

[f1eng]

I think this is where I am getting tripped up. In our race cars we always tuned for max power even at the expense of torque. But for our street cars we always wanted max torque under the curve as it was much more fun at street speeds and RPMs.

Can you explain why having the extra torque, all other things being equal, doesn't really matter on the street in an EV.

It is simply that whilst the actual thrust at the tyre depends on the torque at the hub that actually depends on gear ratio too so torque actually falls out in the calculation since it is actually power that counts.
With an IC engine and a multi ratio gearbox having a lower down torque peak means more power at lower rpm which means less gear changing which is more relaxing (but slower) so easier to drive.

A a simple example of what I mean imagine two theoretical IC engines. The first produces twice the torque of the second but at half the rpm. That is the same peak power.
At the road speed for peak torque the first engine will need double gear reduction to match engine to that speed as the second engine. That means the thrust at the tyre will be exactly the same for both engines because they have equal power despite one having double the torque.
The first engine will maybe feel easier and more convenient to drive but no quicker.

It is always the available power at that engine speed that is actually important but it is torque which is used to calculate it.
I think it is a marketing thing which grew from selling cars with engines which weren’t all that powerful!

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[f1eng]

I think in answer to the question of 'Is the Turbo worth it over the 4S" is ultimately: no. But it's the law of diminishing returns. You get extra power and more available reserves on the road, but you can spec a 4S to the same level as a Turbo aside from that extra power, albeit that is a lot of extra's to add I guess. At least the options are there and Porsche is always willing to give customers the options to add to their cars, to make up exactly the car you want. At a price

Certainly with my (very limited), drive of them, some of those extra drive-train and chassis/suspension goodies are well worth investing in.

My view was that the 4S had enough power for my local driving and even with 21” wheels torque vectoring and rear wheel steering added to match Turbo S chassis was massively less expensive meaning PDCC could be added as well so chassis wise easily possible to make a 4S superior to a standard turbo S for tens of thousands of pounds less.


A turbo with the same options as my 4S is £20k more expensive and its extra power would almost never be used and is in every other way (other than badge envy) no better.

 

[kempez]

My view was that the 4S had enough power for my local driving and even with 21” wheels torque vectoring and rear wheel steering added to match Turbo S chassis was massively less expensive meaning PDCC could be added as well so chassis wise easily possible to make a 4S superior to a standard turbo S for tens of thousands of pounds less.


A turbo with the same options as my 4S is £20k more expensive and its extra power would almost never be used and is in every other way (other than badge envy) no better.

That was exactly my point. You can get a 4S specified to the same level as the Turbo and all that's missing is the extra power, which is not going to be usable on the (UK) roads much, if at all. So it's a law of diminishing returns. More money for not much extra 'stuff'. But it's like anything. People buy high end audio for the extra 1-2% of clarity and fidelity of much cheaper units

 

[f1eng]

People buy high end audio for the extra 1-2% of clarity and fidelity of much cheaper units

Frequently much more expensive for markedly less accuracy IME!

 

[Ross]

The simple answer to the original OP question is of course NO!
4S is brutally and excessively fast.
Anything more makes it even more of a Vomit Comet!!

Of course I am ignoring my own advice by buying a GTS because I ordered on launch day and it’s coming quicker (May) and it’s got £20k of extras over the 4S and it’s £20k more expensive.
It won’t cost much more than a 4S to own!
Elegant man maths justification!

Of course I didn’t want ALL those extras but I don’t hate any of them except Sports Chrono Clock and Coke Zero bottle top grafted on to the steering wheel!
(I added 5k more of stuff I would have to add to a Turbo as well.)

You get everything on a GTS you would get on a Turbo except Auto dimming and Bose and White brake callipers.

A Turbo gets only 16k of extras over a 4S
and is 33k more expensive so it’s the law of diminishing returns as ever as you move up the model range.
GTS makes more sense than a Turbo but less sense than a 4S without comedy £30k spec.

But hey! None of this makes any sense so if you want a Turbo go for it and enjoy your badge and the little bits of body coloured plastic on your spoilers and valances.
Enjoy the exhilarating acceleration!

 

[TAYC4S]

The simple answer to the original OP question is of course NO!
4S is brutally and excessively fast.
Anything more makes it even more of a Vomit Comet!!

Of course I am ignoring my own advice by buying a GTS because I ordered on launch day and it’s coming quicker (May) and it’s got £20k of extras over the 4S and it’s £20k more expensive.
It won’t cost much more than a 4S to own!
Elegant man maths justification!

Of course I didn’t want ALL those extras but I don’t hate any of them except Sports Chrono Clock and Coke Zero bottle top grafted on to the steering wheel!
(I added 5k more of stuff I would have to add to a Turbo as well.)

You get everything on a GTS you would get on a Turbo except Auto dimming and Bose and White brake callipers.

A Turbo gets only 16k of extras over a 4S
and is 33k more expensive so it’s the law of diminishing returns as ever as you move up the model range.
GTS makes more sense than a Turbo but less sense than a 4S without comedy £30k spec.

But hey! None of this makes any sense so if you want a Turbo go for it and enjoy your badge and the little bits of body coloured plastic on your spoilers and valances.
Enjoy the exhilarating acceleration!

You are probably right - I think the fact that my Porsche dealer is prepared to buy back my car after 2 years for less than £5k under what I paid to get the 4S onto the road is also tempting but, perhaps I am being greedy and should just enjoy the amazing car I have already (which has been faultless on top)...

 

[WuffvonTrips]

...if you want a Turbo go for it and enjoy your badge and the little bits of body coloured plastic on your spoilers and valances.

GTS is to pot as kettle is to Turbo
I'm going badgeless on the outside- the casual observer needn't know my trim level (though I'm too stingy to spend money debadging the inside as well).

 

[Ross]

You are probably right - I think the fact that my Porsche dealer is prepared to buy back my car after 2 years for less than £5k under what I paid to get the 4S onto the road is also tempting but, perhaps I am being greedy and should just enjoy the amazing car I have already (which has been faultless on top)...

Very similar story. I didn’t like the chrome window surround and badge on my Crayon 4S. Arrival of GTS and 6k over list offer from Webuyanycar after 18 months sealed the deal. My plate is T4YCN so my eye is always drawn to your posts!

 

[Ross]

GTS is to pot as kettle is to Turbo
I'm going badgeless on the outside- the casual observer needn't know my trim level (though I'm too stingy to spend money debadging the inside as well).

Nice one Wolfgang!
I will still be able to tell it’s a Turbo!
It’s my specification geek prowess!
Being up North like me I might see you whizz past me in my slow old GTS!
Cars arriving same time soon so we will be driving enthusiastically for a while?!
What colour is the new CT turbo!

 

[WuffvonTrips]

Being up North like me I might see you whizz past me in my slow old GTS!
Cars arriving same time soon so we will be driving enthusiastically for a while?!
What colour is the new CT turbo!

Frozen Blue so should be easy to spot...though unlikely to be doing much whizzing until I've build up my G-force tolerance . The plan is to have just "Taycan" on the back, which on a CT will unintentionally make it unique unless there are others out there daft enough to spend money editing the name
What colour will your beast be?
(PS I'm impressed you understood my old timer user name )

 

[porcha]

I was about to buy a 4S but after adding in all the options the price wasn’t too far from the Turbo. There is a difference in power - and it really depends how much you like g forces. 4S is fast for sure - but coming from a 911 it felt a bit slow. No badge btw.

 

[smoothound]

FWIW

Don't forget when doing financial comparison - especially if buying on PCP - The Turbo is 33k more with only 16k 'of what would be cost options on a 4s - but it will have a much higher lease residual than a highly specced 4S -since options are not considered in PCP - so for leasing and especially PCP - the Delta is not as simple (or as large) as comparing list prices for the cars plus the extras etc.

cheers

 

[SteveMc]

To answer the OP question on range - 2 years and several thousand miles of Turbo ownership, Mission-E wheels, driven around the UK, a mixture of London city and motorway 71mph *cough* driving, and my range is a rock solid 220-225 miles.

Whoever is getting 180miles earlier in this thread must be driving with an anchor hanging out the back.

 

[Skilly]

Drive both and get back to me. I’m sure you are aware the front and rear end design of the turbo S are different. Maybe not. Also saying that a a car that has toque vectoring isn’t affected by the absolute torque of the vehicle makes no sense. Maybe we need a a physicist to chime in….

Yeah, I'm with @Archimedes - you aren't making much sense. The cars physical characteristics are largely the same. Downforce is a function of aero, not HP. A 4S with the same driving options that are equipped on the Turbo/S aren't going to change because of that added HP.

And, they weren't saying "toque (SP) vectoring isn’t affected by the absolute torque of the vehicle". They were saying both cars similarly equipped won't have different handling characteristics.

And the whole "drive both and get back to me" isn't the mic drop you might think it is. I've driven both through ownership over multiple months for each. The esthetic changes between the 4S and Turbo/S variant are just that - its not to give a downforce advantage.

Straight line speed and a bunch of standard features incld. are the Turbo S advantages...not exclusive handling and aero. wow.

 

[Skilly]

To answer the OP question on range - 2 years and several thousand miles of Turbo ownership, Mission-E wheels, driven around the UK, a mixture of London city and motorway 71mph *cough* driving, and my range is a rock solid 220-225 miles.

Whoever is getting 180miles earlier in this thread must be driving with an anchor hanging out the back.

that or they think that the go pedal is linear...on or off. Must be fun being a passenger in that car while sipping your morning coffee.

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