A simple reason why Porsche is in serious long-term trouble

[JimBob]

No, there is a parallel universe where affluent consumers are secretly pining for the opportunity to buy an Xpeng, Zeekr or Nio, because of the superior driving experience they will get, and because this is the brand that they recognize themselves in the most.

Apparently speaking from a parallel universe. I could see getting the wife a $30,000 Chinese chariot rather than a $90.000 Macan for driving about town.

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[Mr.Smith]

Apparently speaking from a parallel universe. I could see getting the wife a $30,000 Chinese chariot rather than a $90.000 Macan for driving about town.

1500hp SU7

 

[ze_shark]

Apparently speaking from a parallel universe. I could see getting the wife a $30,000 Chinese chariot rather than a $90.000 Macan for driving about town.

If the experience of a 30k$ chinese chariot is good enough for you/your wife and you deem it equivalent to a 90k$ Macan, then you would be wasting your money, indeed.

A luxury purchase can only ever be justified and remain commercially viable as long as the customer discerns a difference.

 

[JimBob]

If the experience of a 30k$ chinese chariot is good enough for you/your wife and you deem it equivalent to a 90k$ Macan, then you would be wasting your money, indeed.

A luxury purchase can only ever be justified and remain commercially viable as long as the customer discerns a difference.

For my wife not me. I want the good stuff. But I might borrow it every now and then. Pick up some stuff from home depot. But practically, cars are not selling because the average person can't afford them and they need cheaper options.

 

[ze_shark]

Where does the cars not selling narrative come from ?

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...tric-sports-cars-4-articles.24121/post-368356

There is a China problem, all OEMs experience it. But outside of China, Porsche is doing quite well.

 

[Vercingetorix]

1500hp SU7

This car can’t even handle half that horsepower.

 

[Scandinavian]

1500hp SU7

Have you looked at the small brake pads on that car? Ridiculous design!

 

[Mr.Smith]

Have you looked at the small brake pads on that car? Ridiculous design!

Safety clearly isn't a priority

 

[chun]

Have you looked at the small brake pads on that car? Ridiculous design!

You mean the one in which they specificlly stated it's not a track car, the one with 600horse power, with the base brakes? Ford's ceo is driving it, he seems to not be concerned. But then again, maybe he knows not to take cars to the track for which it's clearly stated to not take to the track...

This is a car for chinese market, with chinese road regulations, where exceeding the speed limit is not that possible, as there are cameras every 10 or so meters. So they did not design the brakes for the road car for intensive use.

The SU7 Ultra, with 1500hp, which is designed for track use, has upgraded brakes:
https://carnewschina.com/2024/10/28...ceramic-brakes-and-likely-to-launch-tomorrow/

Let's not exaggerate. Maybe we should take a jeep to the nurburing and complain that the brakes are shit when they overheat also?

 

[Vercingetorix]

And the seat broke because in China that is completely safe due to the lower speed limits. Decent seats and brakes are only required for Autobahn crashes.

 

[chun]

And the seat broke because in China that is completely safe due to the lower speed limits. Decent seats and brakes are only required for Autobahn crashes.

Those brakes are more than decent and rated for high speeds, what they are not rated is for track use which overheats them. But sure, keep talking bullshit...

The seat failure is a supplier issue, as Kia EV9 had the same, with the same off the shelf seats.

But yes, whatever floats your boat.

Lies and missinformation is ok when it's about china afterall

You are dissmissing a whole country in terms of their auto prowess based on 1 failure with a car that wasn't even supposed to be taken on track, driven in bad faith - as in the same video the car crashes, at the start the guy says as much: "i plan to drive it until it crashes".

All of that while Ford's CEO praises the car like there's no tomorrow. But here you are, claiming a car unsafe due to 1 crash. Remind me, how many did the taycan had? How many recalls? Or are you also claiming that taycan is unsafe?

 

[Mr.Smith]

And the seat broke because in China that is completely safe due to the lower speed limits. Decent seats and brakes are only required for Autobahn crashes.

Because they move really fast for their development and production, sometimes validation (which takes a lot more time) can be compromised.
Germans have a habit of over engineering and longer validation cycles.

Get the car out fast, let the public validate, OTA incremental improvements.
This is NOT the German philosophy

 

[chun]

This is NOT the German philosophy

Like we, as the public, did not test the taycan brake hoses?
The taycan heater/heat pump?
The taycan inner tire excessive wear issue due to hard cornering in lowest height?
The taycan parking software issue?
The taycan batteries
And so much more?

Eh... maybe that was not the German philosophy 20 years ago. Now it's just comfort and lack of agile thinking. Reminds me of the only software that made it out of Germany, SAP. The shiftiest software i have worked with in my life, never updated and with the slowest rollout of features ever, not due to precaution, but because "it works just fine".

What was the saying... The pot calling the kettle black?
With how many issues the taycan had, i think calling the chinese EVs bad or unsafe is just bad faith. Especially when they are actually actively innovating on the safety problems, a chinese EV being rated the 2nd safest car in the world behind a Mercedes, and the safest EV in the world:

The Geely Zeekr X has been recognized as the safest electric vehicle (EV) of 2024 by Euro NCAP

 

[Der-Schwabe]

It is important to appreciate that Chinese manufacturer Xiaomi was & is relying on support from UK motorsport firm Prodrive to achieve last year's electric prototype saloon lap record at the Nürburgring Nordschleife and the planned record for the production version this year.

" Prodrive’s contributions to chassis torque vectoring, advanced aerodynamics, and powertrain integration have been helpful in Xiaomi Auto’s breakthrough".

Prodrive support for Xiaomi

So the notion that Chinese manufacturers are developing their vehicles without help from European expertise is inaccurate.

 

[Der-Schwabe]

Underreported certainly (as it is far less popular when compared to Formula 1) is Porsche's engagement & success in the Formula E single seater racing series that will no doubt act as an ideal proving ground for BEV technology on the road and marks it out against competitors.

Notably, it won the Formula E world championship last year and committed to develop the 4th generation of Formula E race cars.

Formula E world championship 2024

Formula E Gen4

One example is the 600 kW charging now being used in the series:

"First-ever Pit Boost race: rapid charging with 600 kW

The Formula E cars recharged during a race for the first time. In the mandatory 34-second so-called Pit Boost pit stop, the highly efficient Porsche 99X Electric rapid-charged 3.85 kWh of energy with a charging power of 600 kW."

600 kW charging

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