All Season Tyres. Help please.

[tchavei]

Personally I'm planning to try out the hankook Ventus iON tyres (summer) as they apparently managed to get EU A rating in all categories and several reviews speak very highly of them. Plus they are specifically made for EV vehicles (extra stiffened walls) and have noise suppression channels.

Anyway, just mentioning it because during my research about them, I saw they also launched a winter tyre trim. Maybe worth to check out?

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[Vercingetorix]

https://www.autoblog.com/2023/02/17...JtVo2VHYawJyoXuJ2cidqJ9lkEjyvtgfJbHIkoeA5YwJS

 

[UNO]

I know this does not help some UK/AUS folks, as they do not have these, but the Pilot Sport All Season 4s that I ran on my Volvo C40 got me through some NASTY ice storm weather in the Ozarks. Truthfully I was stupid to have driven home, but I have animals and must feed them. The roads were so slick that I could stand on the crown of the road and if not careful, slide into the ditch if I didn't fall first. Those PSAS4's took me up some steep hills (25%+ grade) in that mess. As well as down 15-20% hills with curves mid-hill and minimal banking. I got home safe and sound and without any mishaps. They do not have a 3peak rating, but they are absolutely amazing, and they hook up well in freezing weather, also. I noted no efficiency changes from my PZERO ELECT tires on the C40, nor the Hankook ION AS SUV tires on my EV6 GT that I swap back and forth between (which WAS disappointing). The wet weather traction with the things are amazing, as well, typically pulling 2.01-2.08 60' times even in a downpour according to my Dragy.

*I have used CC2's on several AWD vehicles and do not view their snow/ice performance as better enough than the PSAS4's to put up with their lower speed rating, higher RR/consumption, and poorer wet performance. They were minimally better in snow and ice, at best. 5-15% or so I'd say.

 

[Jonathan S.]

[...] *I have used CC2's on several AWD vehicles and do not view their snow/ice performance as better enough than the PSAS4's to put up with their lower speed rating, higher RR/consumption, and poorer wet performance. They were minimally better in snow and ice, at best. 5-15% or so I'd say.

I agree that the CC2 has a hit for RR (and hence EV range).
A lower speed rating, sure, for those who care about that (i.e., not me with my pokey 4CT).
Poorer wet performance, depends on the comparison tire model.

But "minimally better in snow and ice" than the PSAS4s, that sure doesn't match up with these objective tests:

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/chartDisplayWinter.jsp?ttid=270​

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The PSAS4s might be pretty good in winter conditions for an all-season tire.
But the CC2 performs on a par in winter conditions with Central European (i.e., "Performance) winter tires (although obviously not as good as Nordic / Studless models, but those come with add'l disadvantages, even in winter on dry and wet roads).

 

[UNO]

I agree that the CC2 has a hit for RR (and hence EV range).
A lower speed rating, sure, for those who care about that (i.e., not me with my pokey 4CT).
Poorer wet performance, depends on the comparison tire model.

But "minimally better in snow and ice" than the PSAS4s, that sure doesn't match up with these objective tests:

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/chartDisplayWinter.jsp?ttid=270​

​

The PSAS4s might be pretty good in winter conditions for an all-season tire.
But the CC2 performs on a par in winter conditions with Central European (i.e., "Performance) winter tires (although obviously not as good as Nordic / Studless models, but those come with add'l disadvantages, even in winter on dry and wet roads).

Looks like 18% in his test for snow braking. I said 5-15%.

 

[Jonathan S.]

Screen capture shows that the PSAS4 needs 22% longer distance in the snow braking test.
The similar Tire Rack test showed a lower 11% longer distance in snow making.
But Tire Rack also showed an ice braking test with a 35% longer distance.

These numbers are certainly subject to, well, subjective judgement, but for a driver who seeks out winter driving conditions to ski, these are not "minimally better" differences.
(Personally, I have not noticed any differences for the CC2 vs Central European winter tire models that I've recently used, most recently the Vredestein Wintrac Pro, although I rarely drive in deep unplowed snow a la Tahoe or PNW, and I even more rarely have to deal with cold ice a la Calgary.)

For a driver who shies away from winter driving conditions, then something like the PSAS4 or the DWS06 is definitely a great choice.
(Even though personally I would never rely on all-season tires during the winter, for most drivers in relatively mild winter climates with AWD vehicles and some reasonable driving competence in winter conditions, I think winter tires are overmarketed. For the five years when I had an AWD vehicle yet lacked an easy way to store a separate set of wheels/tires, well, hey, I survived, although winter driving sure has been easier even since I switched to winter or all-weather tires. And when I've been caught since then with all-season tires in winter conditions in early fall or late spring, definitely made me appreciate winter or all-weather tires, although, once again, I'm still here!)

 

[DougFrisk]

Just going to throw this photo of my driveway from last March out there. The reason we went with the 20 inch wheels was because we could replace the OEM Continentals with OEM size Crossclimate 2s after the originals wear out. The edge of the envelope performance we need isn't on dry track conditions, it's in this, and we want a tire that can handle this with as much ease as it can handle a 90 degree summer day.

The 4CT is to be a daily driver and it's going to have to deal with 30 or more days like this per year.

 

[Jonathan S.]

And here I thought I was the only one who went with 20” for that reason!

CC2 is not available for the 19” staggered setup on our i4 M50 but the Quatrac Pro is, so good enough.

The additional comparison test I’d like to see is Alpin PA4 vs Wintrac Pro vs CC2 vs Quatrac Pro.

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

Just going to throw this photo of my driveway from last March out there. The reason we went with the 20 inch wheels was because we could replace the OEM Continentals with OEM size Crossclimate 2s after the originals wear out.

The 4CT is to be a daily driver and it's going to have to deal with 30 or more days like this per year.

Awesome pic (as in, the conditions were awesome - that's the best time to go skiing, everyone else is buried at home). I am pleased to tell you that the standard all-seasons on my 4CT handled with aplomb the many snow and ice trips I took this past winter. Our snow tends to be slushier, but it's ice underneath and we've got some steep hills. A snow-oriented all-season, or a half-decent winter tire would work great on this car.

Edited to remove a misplaced quote; apologies, @4thPcar , I had quoted one of your messages from another thread intending to reply, not sure how it ended up here. It wasn't important, and not worth reposting. (For full disclosure, it was a bit of a cheeky dig.)

 

[f1eng]

for most drivers in relatively mild winter climates with AWD vehicles and some reasonable driving competence in winter conditions

I think the idea that AWD makes all the difference in slippery conditions is common but risky IMO.
Yes, you can get going and are less likely to get stuck but they offer zero benefit in steering or braking over 2WD so pretty crap, and in an accident situation you are just as f*cked on the wrong tyres in 2WD or AWD.

 

[BigBob]

Is your car under there somewhere?

 

[Leverage]

Does your insurance cover you if you have a car accident in the winter with no winter tires? I know some people who had issues with their insurance because they had not fitted proper tires in regard to the weather conditions (ie driving with summer tire in winter and then having an accident).

None-less with a car like the Taycan, I don't want to risk anything so I ordered a specific winter tires.

 

[Ross]

I think the idea that AWD makes all the difference in slippery conditions is common but risky IMO.
Yes, you can get going and are less likely to get stuck but they offer zero benefit in steering or braking over 2WD so pretty crap, and in an accident situation you are just as f*cked on the wrong tyres in 2WD or AWD.

You tube has excellent videos showing how 4WD while being SLIGHTLY better than 2WD is nothing like the benefit of better tyres in slippery snow and ice. The evidnce is clear.

4WD VS Winter Tyres - Do you need winter tyres if you have 4WD? - YouTube

 

[Jonathan S.]

You tube has excellent videos showing how 4WD while being SLIGHTLY better than 2WD is nothing like the benefit of better tyres in slippery snow and ice. The evidnce is clear.

4WD VS Winter Tyres - Do you need winter tyres if you have 4WD? - YouTube

That video is showing AWD with summer tires, which are sketchy even just in cold temperatures without any snow or ice.
I think that particular test is mainly for amusement value?

Anyway, both AWD and winter or all-weather tires have significantly noticeable benefits in snow and ice. Nobody is arguing with that. For drivers with AWD who only rarely drive in winter conditions, sticking with an all-season tire is defensible, although the increasingly wider selection of all-weather tire makes a year-round approach more viable.

 

[Jonathan S.]

Does your insurance cover you if you have a car accident in the winter with no winter tires? I know some people who had issues with their insurance because they had not fitted proper tires in regard to the weather conditions (ie driving with summer tire in winter and then having an accident).

None-less with a car like the Taycan, I don't want to risk anything so I ordered a specific winter tires.

Some Canadian provinces have rules for winter tires.
Nothing like that in any U.S states. Except chain regulations have some tire components although iirc the only distinction was not having a summer tire (eg in certain conditions, AWD or 4WD plus an all-season or winter tire meant not having to chain up).

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