Depreciation

[utsteve98]

Range seems to be a relic of the early concerns of owning an EV. No infrastructure to charge. Especially a huge concern in the US given how large the country is. As the charging network grows, won’t be an issue and less relevant. After all there are a few ICE cars with 200 miles of range don’t don’t concern those buyers. Simply because gas stations are everywhere.

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[whitex]

For those who don't care about depreciation because you're planning to keep the car forever, remember most insurance policies will only pay ACV actual cash value which factors in the depreciation unless you have a RCV replacement cost policy.

You are correct, insurance pays replacement value, meaning you can replace your car for that amount, should your car get totaled. So if you own your car, and just plan to drive it and/or replace it gets totaled, depreciation does not matter, might even help you in annual excise tax scenarios where they are based on car value which you can reset when purchasing used (vs starting at MSRP when new and following government depreciation tables which are often laughable, i.e. meant to extract as much tax as possible).

High depreciation could also help you if happen to have a loan and you are upside down due to depreciation, but have gap insurance. Then insurance pays off your loan, you get to buy a replacement cheaper due to depreciation - lower loan amount after the swap, possibly lower payments (may be higher interest rate, but less owed).

So really, unless you are planning to sell or have it totaled and not replace it, higher depreciation doesn't really a down side you describe.

 

[whitex]

Range seems to be a relic of the early concerns of owning an EV. No infrastructure to charge. Especially a huge concern in the US given how large the country is. As the charging network grows, won’t be an issue and less relevant. After all there are a few ICE cars with 200 miles of range don’t don’t concern those buyers. Simply because gas stations are everywhere.

I've had 5 EV's, 4 Model S and 1 Taycan. The first one was an S60, so ~160 miles of real world range, and it was early in the EV charging world, but even so, there were only a few instances where that affected my plans. The last 3 Teslas and the Taycan have a realistic range of ~200 miles (less if you drive hard, but can almost always slow down to get to 200 miles).

My wife has been driving a Model S since 2016, she has visited a DC charger maybe a handful of times, ever (once this year so far, the time before this was before the pandemic). I visited maybe 120 superchargers with the Model S in my decade of driving them, all on road trips. I visited ~30 chargers so far this year in a Taycan, but it was all on a single trip driving it up from the dealer where I picked it up. Personally I find 200 miles of real-world range the sweet spot. It works both for me both for every day driving, and for long distance trips.

Do note however that I have charging at home, so my car is full (most days 85%) whenever leaving the garage. I cannot comment what the ideal range would be for someone who has to go to a DC charger for most fill-ups, as that would be a different usecase, which is also probably more dependent on charging speed.

Even Elon Musk stopped touting range as the key EV spec, once you go over 200 miles. He used to promise 500 mile cars coming soon, but now that Tesla's have exceeded 300 miles, he's been talking about offering 200 mile versions as the more optimal range for most people. Tesla has the most data of all EV manufacturers as far as how much range real people actually use, so they are probably in the best position to say what the sweet spot in range is for cars in different markets.

 

[Spyerx]

Why would you do that? Genuinely curious. The 4CT is 90% of the car for 50% of the price. The power/launching gets commonplace/blase fairly quickly.

I couldn't care less about the launch control, I have more interesting cars to drive fast, even if not as fast in a straight line.

I also wonder, in my view the Turbo spec and some more options make the Taycan feel like a better car than a base CT4.

Maybe, mine is pretty loaded up, full leather, nice wheels, etc...

I was arguing the opposite. The "base" car is definitely a lot more than its half-Turbo-price would suggest.

So why? PCCB. I'm a lazy sucker and I well, less dust. Even less dust then less dust EV already...

Seem vain? Maybe?

 

[NJ-Taycan]

Some good reading. Coming soon….

https://carbuzz.com/news/porsche-evs-coming-with-800-mile-range-and-15-minute-recharge-time

 

[Genau]

Some good reading. Coming soon….

https://carbuzz.com/news/porsche-evs-coming-with-800-mile-range-and-15-minute-recharge-time

My brother in law is a PhD materials scientist at a solid state battery company. He will be borrowing my Taycan this weekend, and I’m hoping that once he experiences the poor range (I get about 210 miles at full charge), he’ll return to work extremely motivated to bring this new battery technology to market! Then we just need Porsche to offer it as a retrofit to older Taycans.

 

[lonestarrpm]

Some good reading. Coming soon….

https://carbuzz.com/news/porsche-evs-coming-with-800-mile-range-and-15-minute-recharge-time

Give me the 250-300 miles and drop the weight.

 

[whitex]

Some good reading. Coming soon….

https://carbuzz.com/news/porsche-evs-coming-with-800-mile-range-and-15-minute-recharge-time

Well, according to the article

silicon anodes could increase battery capacity tenfold and enable charge times of under 15 minutes.

so that would be a 2,000-3,000 mile Taycan, unless they make the battery much smaller. Charging 3,000 miles in 15 minutes would also require more powerful chargers than exist today, but the article mentions that already.

 

[whitex]

Why would you do that? Genuinely curious. The 4CT is 90% of the car for 50% of the price. The power/launching gets commonplace/blase fairly quickly.

It’s probably what you just said, you get used to you current model and want something more. I went through it with Model S. My first one was non-performance model, which I loved, but every time I’d drive the performance one, my car felt “broken” for the next few hours driving it - whenever I pushed the accelerator, it felt like the car was stalling. There was also a handling difference due to different suspension at the time, and awd vs. rwd, but that would not be an issue with Taycan as you can get all the same goodies on the base models. This experience was the reason I stuck it out waiting for a CT Turbo - I didn't want to feel like I want to upgrade it in a year or two (which I ended up doing with the Model S).

Speaking of the same goodies, I will challenge your "90% of the car for 50% of the price". Yes, if you buy a bare, no options, model, CT4 is 52% of CT Turbo S. However, if you want a lot of the options which Turbo S has included, your CT4 price will go up. Some options are cheaper on Turbo S than on CT4 too. Then there is the fact that there are intermediate models (4S, GTS, Turbo) available at intermediate prices. I never priced out the CT4, but when I was buying I priced out CT4S and higher. CT Turbo with the same options I wanted, compared to 4S was ~$25K more, even though the MSRP difference for base was ~$47K. The jump to Turbo S was another ~$30K (vs. ~$35K in MRSP difference) which I did not feel was anywhere near worth the money, since there was nothing I wanted from a Turbo S over Turbo except maybe the larger front inverter/motor, but since I never use launch control where according to Porsche is the only time it kicks in, it would be of questionable value. There were also two options on the Turbo S which I specifically did not want but could not remove - powered charge port and ceramic brakes. I priced out GTS when it came out too but included options were not ones I wanted, so negligible value for me over 4S (Turbo drive train, but software limited), therefore not worth the price premium over 4S. Hence, Turbo was the sweet spot for me and my options configuration.

So bottom line, unless you really only want to buy bare, no options Taycan CT4, you don't get "90% of the car for 52% of the price". That is not to say that trims under Turbo S are not great choices, not at all. My point is only that after you add the options you like, you don't usually save as much as MSRP difference would suggest.

PS> Since this is a depreciation thread, it's worth pointing out that if you compare a higher trim car to a lower trim optioned up to the higher trim's options, the lower trim car will depreciate faster, because options depreciate faster than base trim.

 

[Novemberwhisky]

I am not actually intending to buy, I have what I want, I just have too much time on my hands!

I absolutely loath and detest privacy glass and thankfully it is optional on a Taycan so I got mine without.
I have rejected any new car with it, ruling out almost every make of car which nearly always force you to take it.

I am bored with black interiors rather than disliking them, they were all the rage in 1968, and just think it is sensible to buy an EV with a pale interior to take a bit of the load off the A/C.

I also much prefer the sculpted ally roof to glass - try finding one without glass too!

The point is that even with loads of options available I was agreeing with an earlier poster that finding a used one which doesn’t have an option you don’t like, or missing one you really want, isn’t easy.

Of the 300+ Taycans on “PistonHeads.com” none appeal to me fully.

Hey we’re all different but Ali roof over glass, why would you prefer that? I understand that the black on black thing is too much. Trouble is GTS I’ve ordered is racetex- only comes in black. (Crayon exterior). Thats the thing with options, but the sensible ones are ‘value’. Rear wheel steering, PDCC, etc What i dont get is those ugly ‘aero’ wheels.. Get some 21“ for gods sake. I wouldn’t look at a used taycan with Aeros. I don’t like the mission thingummy wheels either. Too bling. The range wheels- i refer to the range obsession chat on this thread, a real misunderstanding of what an EV does and how you use it. Cars gotta look good.

 

[tchavei]

Hey we’re all different but Ali roof over glass, why would you prefer that? I understand that the black on black thing is too much. Trouble is GTS I’ve ordered is racetex- only comes in black. (Crayon exterior). Thats the thing with options, but the sensible ones are ‘value’. Rear wheel steering, PDCC, etc What i dont get is those ugly ‘aero’ wheels.. Get some 21“ for gods sake. I wouldn’t look at a used taycan with Aeros. I don’t like the mission thingummy wheels either. Too bling. The range wheels- i refer to the range obsession chat on this thread, a real misunderstanding of what an EV does and how you use it. Cars gotta look good.

You're from Spain right? Can you imagine a pano roof in Seville in August?

Last year when I stepped out of my car in Seville at 3pm, I could barely breathe in the hot air. I was afraid my sandals would melt on the tarmac.

I don't know each person's unique reasons of why wanting (or not) a pano roof but in my case, it was a firm 'NO'. I have way too much sun (330 days/year) to let my car become a very expensive human furnace. Plus I believe the structural integrity is better with the alu roof, one less thing to crack or break.

 

[f1eng]

Hey we’re all different but Ali roof over glass, why would you prefer that? I understand that the black on black thing is too much. Trouble is GTS I’ve ordered is racetex- only comes in black. (Crayon exterior). Thats the thing with options, but the sensible ones are ‘value’. Rear wheel steering, PDCC, etc What i dont get is those ugly ‘aero’ wheels.. Get some 21“ for gods sake. I wouldn’t look at a used taycan with Aeros. I don’t like the mission thingummy wheels either. Too bling. The range wheels- i refer to the range obsession chat on this thread, a real misunderstanding of what an EV does and how you use it. Cars gotta look good.

You seem to have got the wrong end of the stick.

The reason I was just browsing used cars not buying is because I have a Taycan. There are still almost zero used Taycans on sale with a spec I personally like enough to pay the asking price.

The sculpted ally roof looks much, much better than the glass one and anyway I have not liked feeling the radiation through the glass roof in any car I have owned with one, and the Taycan hasn't got a shade. But the ally roof is chosen it because it looks so much better.

I did spec a GTS and I do like the look of the GTS interior but I prefer the comfort seats with ventilation and they aren't available with GTS interior trim. It is also black, ubiquitous and very boring.
In the end the GTS was a bit more expensive than a 4S for not much more power and the best looking Taycan wheels are not available on the GTS so I stuck with a CT 4S. The GTS spider wheels in satin black (ie no shiny machined highlights which I dislike) are almost as nice as the Cross Turismo 21" painted vesuvius grey that I have, but not enough to choose the GTS for me.

My car looks good to me. I don't like the look of the wheelarch protective strips, but the Mamba green with sculpted roof and wheels and inserts painted vesuvius grey is the best looking Taycan I have seen yet.

My next door neigbour has a crayon GTS ST with GTS interior which is spoiled by the glass roof and roof rails (which he needed to carry his bike) looks wise. I do love the racetex and leather GTS interior and would have chosen it if available in something other than black and also ventilated comfort seats.

 

[whitex]

You're from Spain right? Can you imagine a pano roof in Seville in August?

Last year when I stepped out of my car in Seville at 3pm, I could barely breathe in the hot air. I was afraid my sandals would melt on the tarmac.

I don't know each person's unique reasons of why wanting (or not) a pano roof but in my case, it was a firm 'NO'. I have way too much sun (330 days/year) to let my car become a very expensive human furnace. Plus I believe the structural integrity is better with the alu roof, one less thing to crack or break.

I would have ordered solid roof if it was available. Now that I’ve had my car for 3.5 months and 5K miles, actually like the extra head space. If I was to order again, I’d order glass roof. Preferences change I guess.

 

[f1eng]

actually like the extra head space.

The headlining is quite thick, probably 30mm or so but I have 100mm clearance above my head which is fine for me so I'd still get the far better looking (to my eye) sculpted roof again.

 

[charliemathilde]

I had the exact same issue. Dealers didn’t seem to care if they sold me a car or not. No call backs. Whatever attitude. Don’t waste my time approach.

My wife says it’s because of my wardrobe. Being that i grew up in California and like to wear whatever, like shorts and Tshirts whenever possible, and $25 sneakers from the outlet, I don’t fit the part of these fancier folks coming in to the dealership.

But after a while when I was finally able to convince them to sell me a car (Cayenne) and then another one (now the TTS), both in cash, the two dealers that I frequent here both treat me very nice.

Maybe try a suit next time? Or just say your your Ferrari is getting to be a bit impractical and are looking for a Taycan as a possible replacement.

Different regions have different standards, but in the US wardrobe doesn’t matter nearly as much as just making an appointment. A friend referring your to their SA is also a good connection, but if that’s not possible, just calling and making an appointment ahead of time works wonders.

Cold walk ins are the worst way to go about a car dealership At this level.

And since they have multiple potential customers for every car … they kinda don’t care if they sell it to you or the next guy. Line is around the block.

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